acl65pilot

Just a question(s):

Do you think that the CPS MEC would willfully give the DAL pilots flow down rights without their quid of a flow up? Would them canceling the flow for us(down) meet the requirements of the PWA stipulating the setback proviso being triggered when the flow becomes unavailable? 153-85 76 seat RJ's)

acl65pilot

One thing you forget is that flowing pilots and or targeting hiring from a given regional will lower their labor costs as those costs get reset when they come to mainline. Part of the unintended consequences of the flow.

FlyinPiker

I guess my question is "Is that within the CPS MEC's power?"

They might be able to negotiate away the DAL pilots flow down rights ( at a "cost" I'm sure) come contract time or thru a LOA, but I'm not so sure the CPS MEC is in the position to "give/take" anything in regards to the flow down since these seem to be the blueprints the company was founded on.

acl65pilot

It is in their CBA so yes they can.

FlyinPiker

Good to hear. At least they have SOMETHING to fight with.

If the flow goes away after all the current compass guys get on property I'm cool with that.

But this whole thing has me worried.

acl65pilot

See the best thing about this is, it is in our contract, and if they just cancel the flow as they are allowed to and these guys to not flow up, you know that they will take the nuclear option and nuke our flowdown rights. That is bad for Ma Delta because they will need to park or block off a lot of seat and then pull them out as the seat trigger will be activated.

Best thing to do is take a slow deliberate approach to this. The first flows get system number in August and more each month after that. We need to study this long and hard. It has far reaching ramifications for all pilots. Time is on our side.

The Duke

This is true, but CPZ is a young airline. Maybe 3 years longevity on the most senior pilot there? So I would think the cost savings are negligible in that department. I may have misinterpreted you though.

I would want to know how much it costs to train a new CPZ pilot/captain? The flow-up would result in tremendous cost I would think (wasn't there a ratio of CPZ/Mesaba required in each newhire Delta class?) to CPZ, owned by Delta. The best way around this would be to dump CPZ and Mesaba to Hulas and Pinnacle. Now Delta would no longer have to honor flow ups based on language in the LOA. Let Hulas deal with it. Also, could there be a backroom deal between Delta management and Hulas to limit the number of pilots taken from CPZ? If I'm Hulas and I acquire CPZ, I wouldn't want to get stuck holding the bag and paying for aforementioned training costs resulting from a continuation of flow.

Also, how large is the pool of applicants to Delta right now? I've heard numbers ranging from 2100 to over 10,000. Which is it? There are probably some highly qualified applicants in that pool who Delta would like to hire who might otherwise not get a chance if the flow-ups were to occur as stipulated. Were the flow-ups scheduled to interview like other applicants to Delta? Or were they simply going to be entitled to a slot on the basis of their employment/seniority at CPZ or Pinnacle?

RoughLandings

Unfortunately, I don't think time is on our side. As I was led to believe (by the president of CPZ), there is a 60-day window to renegotiate the terms of the flow. If there is no new agreement in place, Compass management is required to cancel the flow-up provision per the CPZ PWA. This was a stipulation of the TSH purchase agreement that DAL required.

Anyway, us CPZ folks have our fingers crossed and are hoping for the best, but are not anywhere near optimistic. So I'm just going to the cabin for the weekend to fish and drink a couple hundred beers.

Happy 4th, everyone! Have a great weekend!

RoughLandings

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Also, that's what she said.

acl65pilot

You do not need to work on their timeline. It is currently contractual!!!!!!!