Spirit pilots have a TA!!!
07-13-2010, 01:56 PM
#321
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Deadheading
100% pay and must be window or aisle (if available). If not available, the seat must be the most forward part of airplane available. Seat must be given when they create the schedule and not the day of the trip. Pilot will be given a confirmation number with their schedule and can change the seat on the Spirit website like any other passenger (except to a big front seat or exit row because the company tries to sell those seats for extra). After takeoff, the pilot can move to any unsold big front seats (Spirit version of first class)
Furlough:
The union added language that allows furloughed pilots to accrue longevity for up to one year on furlough. Previously, furloughed pilots only accrued seniority and not longevity.
The union increased furlough notice from 14 to 30 days (paid for a minimum of 30 days following notice).
No pilots can be downgraded or furloughed as a result of any changes to the TA. This is complicated because a previous arbitrator ruled that Spirit can’t downgrade unless there is a reduction in force. Thereforem our negotiators just added that the company can’t furlough which also protects current captains from a downgrade.
Commuter Policy
You must attempt two flights before the start of your schedule. You must notify the company after your first missed flight. If you can’t get on your second flight…you can’t be punished. No limit on how many times you can do this.
Electronic shift trade
The company wants automated trip pickups, trades, and drops. We currently use the FLICA computer system, but requests are manually processed by schedulers each midnight which creates a high workload for them (even more if we keep growing). In order for us to approve an automated system, 75% of the days each month must be green days in which the company has to approve a drop or net loss trade. 25% of the days can be red in which case the automated system must still allow trades if the day you are picking up has worse reserve coverage than the day you are dropping.
One pilot's junk might be another pilot's gold. That is the reason the union wants it real time rather than each midnight to generate more activity. More activity = better schedules.
100% pay and must be window or aisle (if available). If not available, the seat must be the most forward part of airplane available. Seat must be given when they create the schedule and not the day of the trip. Pilot will be given a confirmation number with their schedule and can change the seat on the Spirit website like any other passenger (except to a big front seat or exit row because the company tries to sell those seats for extra). After takeoff, the pilot can move to any unsold big front seats (Spirit version of first class)
Furlough:
The union added language that allows furloughed pilots to accrue longevity for up to one year on furlough. Previously, furloughed pilots only accrued seniority and not longevity.
The union increased furlough notice from 14 to 30 days (paid for a minimum of 30 days following notice).
No pilots can be downgraded or furloughed as a result of any changes to the TA. This is complicated because a previous arbitrator ruled that Spirit can’t downgrade unless there is a reduction in force. Thereforem our negotiators just added that the company can’t furlough which also protects current captains from a downgrade.
Commuter Policy
You must attempt two flights before the start of your schedule. You must notify the company after your first missed flight. If you can’t get on your second flight…you can’t be punished. No limit on how many times you can do this.
Electronic shift trade
The company wants automated trip pickups, trades, and drops. We currently use the FLICA computer system, but requests are manually processed by schedulers each midnight which creates a high workload for them (even more if we keep growing). In order for us to approve an automated system, 75% of the days each month must be green days in which the company has to approve a drop or net loss trade. 25% of the days can be red in which case the automated system must still allow trades if the day you are picking up has worse reserve coverage than the day you are dropping.
One pilot's junk might be another pilot's gold. That is the reason the union wants it real time rather than each midnight to generate more activity. More activity = better schedules.
07-13-2010, 04:40 PM
#322
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Schedule Integrity:
A regular pilot is entitled to “schedule integrity,” that is, the right to take and remain on his bid trip and not be rescheduled so long as the trip operates, he is legal to fly the trip under the provisions of the FARs and this Agreement; and his estimated time of arrival on his current flight is no later than fifteen minutes (:15) prior to his next flight’s scheduled or amended scheduled departure time, or he is displaced as provided in M.2 below.
2. Pilots who have voluntarily added reserve days prior to schedule assignments retain no schedule integrity for the subsequent trip.
3. When a line pilot is displaced from his assigned flight(s) by a management pilot, an IOE/Line Check Airman, or by a line pilot who is being trained or checked by an IOE/Line Check Airman, he shall be released for the trip hour period from which he is displaced and will receive trip pay pursuant to Sections 4.D.1 and .2. Such release will not be less than one calendar day. Displacement may only occur at the pilot’s domicile. A pilot may only be required to pick up the remainder of his original trip and in accordance with the time available provisions.
Junior Assignment:
2. Any pilot who is junior assigned will be paid for such junior assignment over and above his monthly guarantee, at two hundred percent (200%) of his applicable hourly rate, the greater of the hours flown or four hours. With crew scheduling’s concurrence, he may be restored an equal number of days off. The Company may only attempt to junior assign a pilot by calling him on his contact number(s). The Company is prohibited from involuntarily junior assigning the pilot through base operations, dispatch, flight control, phone patch to the aircraft, or on a Company layover. A pilot may not be given an involuntary junior assignment when scheduling has contacted the pilot for a purpose other than junior assigning. A pilot will not be junior assigned solely because he has contacted crew scheduling regarding routine inquiries.
Pay Protection:
Whenever the company drops a flight or trip...the pilot is 100% pay protected. If you pick up some flying on your days off and it gets cancelled...the pilot is 100% pay protected as if he flew the flights. Often the company offers to drop a trip in return for you picking up another trip. My friend made over 330 hours credit in one month because he kept getting trips dropped and picking up other trips. Scheduling was desperate! That is very unusual but it is not unusual for pilots to make 110 to 150 credit that live in base and offer to pick up trips in return for other trips being dropped. These pilots put their names on the "standing available list" and scheduling calls them when they are desperate. I'm amazed some airlines don't have 100% pay protection.
A regular pilot is entitled to “schedule integrity,” that is, the right to take and remain on his bid trip and not be rescheduled so long as the trip operates, he is legal to fly the trip under the provisions of the FARs and this Agreement; and his estimated time of arrival on his current flight is no later than fifteen minutes (:15) prior to his next flight’s scheduled or amended scheduled departure time, or he is displaced as provided in M.2 below.
2. Pilots who have voluntarily added reserve days prior to schedule assignments retain no schedule integrity for the subsequent trip.
3. When a line pilot is displaced from his assigned flight(s) by a management pilot, an IOE/Line Check Airman, or by a line pilot who is being trained or checked by an IOE/Line Check Airman, he shall be released for the trip hour period from which he is displaced and will receive trip pay pursuant to Sections 4.D.1 and .2. Such release will not be less than one calendar day. Displacement may only occur at the pilot’s domicile. A pilot may only be required to pick up the remainder of his original trip and in accordance with the time available provisions.
Junior Assignment:
2. Any pilot who is junior assigned will be paid for such junior assignment over and above his monthly guarantee, at two hundred percent (200%) of his applicable hourly rate, the greater of the hours flown or four hours. With crew scheduling’s concurrence, he may be restored an equal number of days off. The Company may only attempt to junior assign a pilot by calling him on his contact number(s). The Company is prohibited from involuntarily junior assigning the pilot through base operations, dispatch, flight control, phone patch to the aircraft, or on a Company layover. A pilot may not be given an involuntary junior assignment when scheduling has contacted the pilot for a purpose other than junior assigning. A pilot will not be junior assigned solely because he has contacted crew scheduling regarding routine inquiries.
Pay Protection:
Whenever the company drops a flight or trip...the pilot is 100% pay protected. If you pick up some flying on your days off and it gets cancelled...the pilot is 100% pay protected as if he flew the flights. Often the company offers to drop a trip in return for you picking up another trip. My friend made over 330 hours credit in one month because he kept getting trips dropped and picking up other trips. Scheduling was desperate! That is very unusual but it is not unusual for pilots to make 110 to 150 credit that live in base and offer to pick up trips in return for other trips being dropped. These pilots put their names on the "standing available list" and scheduling calls them when they are desperate. I'm amazed some airlines don't have 100% pay protection.
07-13-2010, 05:06 PM
#323
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Want(ed) to be an Airline Pilot
Posts: 43
I believe that flexibility in building high credit lines reduces the possibility of seasonal furloughs because the company won't have to hire people they don't need just for the busy season.
Lets imagine that all lines were limited to 75 hours block. There would be massive recalls prior to each busy season and massive furloughs after the busy season. Why?...because the company would no flexibility to build high credit lines during the busy season and would need to staff pilots that are unnecessary the rest of the year.
Great recap of the contract. That helps to see it broken down that way. Thanks.
As for the "Seasonal" thing I mentioned earlier was tongue in cheek, but what I meant was that with the 90 hr line capability, it gives Spirit massive flexability. That is good unless it is abusive. Don't you think 90 hour lines (which would likely be 3 summer months and Dec) is a bit abusive? 33% of the year.
I don't have a problem giving them flexability, I want the company to succeed, but at straight time? An extra 18 hours above the 72 guarantee....seems abusive to me. The pilot's don't have a choice to take a 72 hour line. They would all be required to work the 90 hours.
07-13-2010, 06:32 PM
#324
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: A 320 CA, retired
Posts: 89
Look at the current bid package and look at the lines--they are at about 80 hours when they can currently build to 85 hours.
So you can't really build 90 hour lines--perhaps one or three, but in the end of the day they can't build too many. If they could do it, they would be building tons of 85 hour lines now.
Let's get real!
So you can't really build 90 hour lines--perhaps one or three, but in the end of the day they can't build too many. If they could do it, they would be building tons of 85 hour lines now.
Let's get real!
07-13-2010, 06:43 PM
#325
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Some lines will be in the 85 to 90 hour range and many will be much less. Ironically, my guess is that the high credit lines go to the senior guys because that is currently how it seems to work. (Especially the 18 day off Bogota lines). We can complain about the 90 hour lines…but we might not even be senior enough to hold them =)
07-13-2010, 08:36 PM
#326
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 532
Some lines will be in the 85 to 90 hour range and many will be much less. Ironically, my guess is that the high credit lines go to the senior guys because that is currently how it seems to work. (Especially the 18 day off Bogota lines). We can complain about the 90 hour lines…but we might not even be senior enough to hold them =)
I've worked here too long to know that they will use every loop hole, grey area and weak spot to abuse us. So far all I hear from you is "I can get extra days off and free money from transition conflicts"---there is no guarantee that will work in the future. For someone that worked with MoneyHan, you sure don't know him very well, or do you? "They don't build all the lines to max now, so why would they do it in the new contract"---again past practice does not guarantee future abuse." "We have an awesome quality of life"---guess what, I see lines every month that mix red-eyes with day turns. How does that affect your quality of life. Do you feel absolutely by demolishing your circadian rhythm? Do you fall asleep on your drive home? Why do they build lines that have redye turns and day turns immediately following each other? Can you answer that Mr. Quality Of Life? And as far as reserve goes, look at the faces of the guys and girls currently doing reserve, it is sad to see what is going on.
Bottom line, we gave up far too much and gained way too little. Do you realize Airtran's current contract from 2001 has pay levels higher than ours?
Let's recap-
the bad-
-We gave up current reserve system for one that can "shift" our reserve times for the companies favor
-We let them minimize the benefit of transition conflicts for the pilos(sorry, you will never convince it is better for us no, just no way)
-We let them schedule us to 90 hours of block per month.
-No retroactive pay for almost 4 years of no raises.
-A signing bonus that in no way makes up for a lack of retroactive pay. In fact, ASA got 9000 dollars more.
-50% increase of premium for those of us who like and have the PPO health insurance.
-No Employee Stock Option Plan for the us WHEN this place goes public
-No pay parity with our peers. Again I don't care about 5 years from now. I voted for and went on strike for pay parity TODAY...We did not get it, so I will vote no and send this TA back.
-Elimination of a system that gets time and a half for working overtime.
the good-
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by SourGrapes; 07-13-2010 at 09:46 PM.
07-13-2010, 09:13 PM
#327
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 460
07-13-2010, 10:42 PM
#328
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 532
The entire CA range is lower by as much as $10/hour at DOS than Airtans' 2001 contract.
The FO rates at DOS are 3-5 dollars more per hour than Airtrans' 2001 contract. 2% to 4% more at DOS than Airtrans' 2001 contract.
So to clarify, the entire CA payrate is lower than Airtrans' 2001 Contract at DOS.
And sorry, my bad, Sprite FO's are 2 to 4 percent more than your current, almost 10 year old contract.
07-13-2010, 10:53 PM
#330
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Unfortunately, industry average has gone down over the past 10 years. Most airlines are making less now than 10 years ago. We are now moving in the correct direction again and hopefully the NMB will release more airlines in the very near future (assuming their release of Spirit is successful)
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