Spirit pilots have a TA!!!
07-12-2010, 06:26 PM
#312
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
Well, good luck whatever it comes out to be.
BTW, I just want to say to "Joe Pilot"; I wish you would have put the time and energy to find out who is still AT Spirit and can vote, than you did for that Loooooooooong email. Some of the people on that mass email aren't at Spirit anymore.
BTW, I just want to say to "Joe Pilot"; I wish you would have put the time and energy to find out who is still AT Spirit and can vote, than you did for that Loooooooooong email. Some of the people on that mass email aren't at Spirit anymore.
07-12-2010, 07:20 PM
#313
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,577
07-12-2010, 08:21 PM
#314
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 549
I'm a yes vote for one primary reason: I told the person on the other end of the line when Wilson polled, "Make quality of life my #1 priority". This TA does so. It took a good QOL contract and made it a little better overall (transition, duty rigs, sick accrual). Does it have flaws? Of course it does. But it ain't worth a no vote.
The folks I'm hearing the loudest "No"s from are the guys that expected to hit the lottery on signing day. One was quoted that he'd have to file for bankruptcy if this TA passes because he has several mortgages. You know what? Maybe he should've been a little wiser financially and lived within his means. If he does so he won't get any sympathy from me.
I'll end up bringing home an extra couple of hundred dollars a month after taxes, and I won't have to exert any more energy trying to trade for more efficient trips if I don't want to. My pay will come up over time: I'll be at least $100/hr by the end of the agreement, if not $150/hr in the left seat.
If one side were estatic it wouldn't have been called "negotiations".
The folks I'm hearing the loudest "No"s from are the guys that expected to hit the lottery on signing day. One was quoted that he'd have to file for bankruptcy if this TA passes because he has several mortgages. You know what? Maybe he should've been a little wiser financially and lived within his means. If he does so he won't get any sympathy from me.
I'll end up bringing home an extra couple of hundred dollars a month after taxes, and I won't have to exert any more energy trying to trade for more efficient trips if I don't want to. My pay will come up over time: I'll be at least $100/hr by the end of the agreement, if not $150/hr in the left seat.
If one side were estatic it wouldn't have been called "negotiations".
07-13-2010, 04:21 AM
#315
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 50
I believe that flexibility in building high credit lines reduces the possibility of seasonal furloughs because the company won't have to hire people they don't need just for the busy season.
Lets imagine that all lines were limited to 75 hours block. There would be massive recalls prior to each busy season and massive furloughs after the busy season. Why?...because the company would no flexibility to build high credit lines during the busy season and would need to staff pilots that are unnecessary the rest of the year.
07-13-2010, 08:03 AM
#316
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 99
Every "NO" voter I've talked to, that has had a chance to go to a road show, is now a resounding "Yes" voter.[/quote]
I agree. I was a solid NO because of the scope language but after having it be explained as well as other numerous myths about the TA, I am very happy with it. We are a lot better off than some of the majors. And if we can upgrade in a few years, even better. I also think the 150% everyone is so worked up about will come back when few people pick up open time. So I am now a solid Yes.
I agree. I was a solid NO because of the scope language but after having it be explained as well as other numerous myths about the TA, I am very happy with it. We are a lot better off than some of the majors. And if we can upgrade in a few years, even better. I also think the 150% everyone is so worked up about will come back when few people pick up open time. So I am now a solid Yes.
07-13-2010, 12:51 PM
#318
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 532
07-13-2010, 01:24 PM
#319
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 944
IF getting rid of the 150% will have a dramatic affect on the amount of OT picked up(im not yet convinced that it will), the company will have two options....hire more pilots or offer an incentive(150%) for more pilots to pick up OT. This company has proven it will do just about anything and everything in order to avoid increasing staffing levels. We will just have to wait and see how the pilot group reacts over the coming months.
07-13-2010, 01:56 PM
#320
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Contract enforcement:
We added this wording to our contract:
“..The parties will create an official bargaining history of all amended sections of the collective bargaining agreement. This history will be made before a court reporter and preserved by both sides. It is agreed that this memorialized bargaining history will be the definitive record of the parties’ bargaining conduct and intent on the amended sections, and shall be admissible as such in arbitration or other ligation.”
Scope:
Our current contract (and TA) prohibits any revenue sharing agreement that exceeds 90 days OR results in a furlough. The company admitted this during negotiations and it became part of our legally binding bargaining history. The company asked for the ability to outsource some flying and the negotiators denied their request. The company can conduct code-shares with other airlines in excess of 90 days that don’t result in a furlough AND that don’t result in Spirit making revenue from the other airlines’ flights.
Compensation:
Industry average is achieved during the contract, and exceeded by the end of the contract. Hopefully other airlines will get big pay raises because we don’t want to be above industry average when we go into negotiations in 5 years.
Per diem is $2/hr and increases a nickel a year.
Scheduling:
The company can’t schedule us to have less than 4 days off between trips (except the first 3 or last 3 days of the month). In other words, the company can't schedule you for 1, 2 or 3 days off. Once the schedule is created, the pilot can voluntarily trade trips to have less than 4 days off.
Spirit still has line bidding that allows us to bid transition conflicts when trips in one month conflict with the next month. The pilot can choose to drop trips that conflict without pay protect (i.e., this month I got 19 days off) or the pilot can choose to stay pay protected and the company can change the trips only on the days he/she was originally supposed to work. However, the pilot can never be scheduled to work more than 6 days in a row. If I fly the last 6 days of a month and bid a line with the first 5 days of the next month…..that is 11 days. So, the company has to drop 5 days pay protected (from the beginning or end of the 11 day block but not the middle). The company isn’t allowed to create days off that don’t touch days you originally had off! Once the schedule is created, I can even pick up trips on the days that were originally dropped. For example: a pilot can convert a 15 day off 85 hour line into a 15 day off 110 hour line without ever working an extra day or making special deals with scheduling.
You must have a calendar day off in base after 6 days (not just 24 hours as at some airlines).
Reserve System:
Our pilots still have one of the best reserve systems in the industry. All reserve periods for the month are scheduled to start at the same time. A pilot who starts reserve at 7am is on duty for 14 hours and has to be able to report to the airport within 3 hours.
Our contract prohibits the company from releasing you early from a reserve duty period (except on the last day so you can go home). So if I start reserve today at 7 am, the company can't call me at 8 am and give me a trip that starts the next day prior to 7 am. The only thing the company can do is extend my rest period. So if I am a 7 am reserve pilot, the company’s only ability to make me start a 6 am trip is to give me 33 hours of rest!
Original duty = 7am to 9pm – 14 hours
Original Rest = 9pm to 7am - 10 hours
Additional rest = 7am to 6am - 23 hours
TOTAL REST before 6am trip = 33 hours
The company is calling this a reserve shift. The pilots can only be given additional rest and the last day of the reserve period can’t be extended. If you aren’t on a trip you must be released 6 hours prior to the end of your originally scheduled reserve period. In other words, the company can’t shift your last day of reserve.
If a reserve pilot is given a trip, it can’t exceed 4 hours past the end of your originally scheduled reserve period. Again the company can’t shift your last day of reserve
Hours of service:
Max of 14 hours of scheduled duty. (Same as current contract)
Max of 11.5 scheduled duty if it touches 0100 to 0400 (better)
Actual duty can be 16 (same as current contract)
Actual duty can’t exceed 12.5 if it touches 0100 to 0400 (better)
The company can’t use international rest requirements for our international flights! They must use domestic unless international is more restrictive.
Minimum days off is 13 for line holder and 13 for reserve (except reserve pilots only get 12 in a 30 day month)
Vacation:
1 to 5 years seniority = 2 weeks (56 hours)
5 to 10 years seniority = 3 weeks (98 hours)
10 to 15 years seniority = 4 weeks (112 hours)
15 to retirement = 5 weeks (140 hours)
Vacation can be used in scheduled weekly blocks you bid prior to the beginning of the year (and can be changed during the year if they are still available). Any trips that touch those vacation weeks gets dropped and deducted from the vacation bank. One week can easily become 2 or 3 weeks of vacation. That is something not possible at many airlines with preferential bidding because the company could have you finish a trip the day before your vacation and start a trip the day after your vacation.
Pilots can also use what they call “floating vacation” if they want to drop individual trips during the year that aren’t part of their weekly vacation periods. There is no limit on floating vacation and it must be granted if there is 10% reserve coverage system wide. Once per 12 months, a pilot can use “mandatory floating vacation” to force the company to drop a trip even if there is less than 10% reserve coverage (except during specific holiday periods or if another pilot used it on the same day)
Training pilots
FTD and SIM instructors are seniority list pilots (i.e. we kept them in the pilot staffing numbers) and with great instructor overrides in addition to their pilot pay (DE = $50/hr, line check from pilot seat = $35/hr, sim check or line check from jumpseat = $27.50/hr, Sim inst = $20/hr, ground inst = $14/hr).
Training:
We get hotels for all simulator training in Miami (even for pilots based in Ft. Lauderdale which is just a 35 minute drive according to mapquest) And a lot of other good stuff like no checks or training between 0200 and 0600.
Sick Leave:
4 hours per month up to a cap of 400.
Arbitrations:
New expedited arbitration language added that won’t let the company delay arbitrations for many months. The availability of the company’s attorney (or union’s) is ignored when scheduling arbitration dates. We will no longer have cross examination and briefs that take months.
Pilots who are disciplined are still protected for due process and not part of the expedited language. However, there will be much more time by the union (and arbitrators) to focus on protecting pilots rather than contract interpretation arbitrations.
We added this wording to our contract:
“..The parties will create an official bargaining history of all amended sections of the collective bargaining agreement. This history will be made before a court reporter and preserved by both sides. It is agreed that this memorialized bargaining history will be the definitive record of the parties’ bargaining conduct and intent on the amended sections, and shall be admissible as such in arbitration or other ligation.”
Scope:
Our current contract (and TA) prohibits any revenue sharing agreement that exceeds 90 days OR results in a furlough. The company admitted this during negotiations and it became part of our legally binding bargaining history. The company asked for the ability to outsource some flying and the negotiators denied their request. The company can conduct code-shares with other airlines in excess of 90 days that don’t result in a furlough AND that don’t result in Spirit making revenue from the other airlines’ flights.
Compensation:
Industry average is achieved during the contract, and exceeded by the end of the contract. Hopefully other airlines will get big pay raises because we don’t want to be above industry average when we go into negotiations in 5 years.
Per diem is $2/hr and increases a nickel a year.
Scheduling:
The company can’t schedule us to have less than 4 days off between trips (except the first 3 or last 3 days of the month). In other words, the company can't schedule you for 1, 2 or 3 days off. Once the schedule is created, the pilot can voluntarily trade trips to have less than 4 days off.
Spirit still has line bidding that allows us to bid transition conflicts when trips in one month conflict with the next month. The pilot can choose to drop trips that conflict without pay protect (i.e., this month I got 19 days off) or the pilot can choose to stay pay protected and the company can change the trips only on the days he/she was originally supposed to work. However, the pilot can never be scheduled to work more than 6 days in a row. If I fly the last 6 days of a month and bid a line with the first 5 days of the next month…..that is 11 days. So, the company has to drop 5 days pay protected (from the beginning or end of the 11 day block but not the middle). The company isn’t allowed to create days off that don’t touch days you originally had off! Once the schedule is created, I can even pick up trips on the days that were originally dropped. For example: a pilot can convert a 15 day off 85 hour line into a 15 day off 110 hour line without ever working an extra day or making special deals with scheduling.
You must have a calendar day off in base after 6 days (not just 24 hours as at some airlines).
Reserve System:
Our pilots still have one of the best reserve systems in the industry. All reserve periods for the month are scheduled to start at the same time. A pilot who starts reserve at 7am is on duty for 14 hours and has to be able to report to the airport within 3 hours.
Our contract prohibits the company from releasing you early from a reserve duty period (except on the last day so you can go home). So if I start reserve today at 7 am, the company can't call me at 8 am and give me a trip that starts the next day prior to 7 am. The only thing the company can do is extend my rest period. So if I am a 7 am reserve pilot, the company’s only ability to make me start a 6 am trip is to give me 33 hours of rest!
Original duty = 7am to 9pm – 14 hours
Original Rest = 9pm to 7am - 10 hours
Additional rest = 7am to 6am - 23 hours
TOTAL REST before 6am trip = 33 hours
The company is calling this a reserve shift. The pilots can only be given additional rest and the last day of the reserve period can’t be extended. If you aren’t on a trip you must be released 6 hours prior to the end of your originally scheduled reserve period. In other words, the company can’t shift your last day of reserve.
If a reserve pilot is given a trip, it can’t exceed 4 hours past the end of your originally scheduled reserve period. Again the company can’t shift your last day of reserve
Hours of service:
Max of 14 hours of scheduled duty. (Same as current contract)
Max of 11.5 scheduled duty if it touches 0100 to 0400 (better)
Actual duty can be 16 (same as current contract)
Actual duty can’t exceed 12.5 if it touches 0100 to 0400 (better)
The company can’t use international rest requirements for our international flights! They must use domestic unless international is more restrictive.
Minimum days off is 13 for line holder and 13 for reserve (except reserve pilots only get 12 in a 30 day month)
Vacation:
1 to 5 years seniority = 2 weeks (56 hours)
5 to 10 years seniority = 3 weeks (98 hours)
10 to 15 years seniority = 4 weeks (112 hours)
15 to retirement = 5 weeks (140 hours)
Vacation can be used in scheduled weekly blocks you bid prior to the beginning of the year (and can be changed during the year if they are still available). Any trips that touch those vacation weeks gets dropped and deducted from the vacation bank. One week can easily become 2 or 3 weeks of vacation. That is something not possible at many airlines with preferential bidding because the company could have you finish a trip the day before your vacation and start a trip the day after your vacation.
Pilots can also use what they call “floating vacation” if they want to drop individual trips during the year that aren’t part of their weekly vacation periods. There is no limit on floating vacation and it must be granted if there is 10% reserve coverage system wide. Once per 12 months, a pilot can use “mandatory floating vacation” to force the company to drop a trip even if there is less than 10% reserve coverage (except during specific holiday periods or if another pilot used it on the same day)
Training pilots
FTD and SIM instructors are seniority list pilots (i.e. we kept them in the pilot staffing numbers) and with great instructor overrides in addition to their pilot pay (DE = $50/hr, line check from pilot seat = $35/hr, sim check or line check from jumpseat = $27.50/hr, Sim inst = $20/hr, ground inst = $14/hr).
Training:
We get hotels for all simulator training in Miami (even for pilots based in Ft. Lauderdale which is just a 35 minute drive according to mapquest) And a lot of other good stuff like no checks or training between 0200 and 0600.
Sick Leave:
4 hours per month up to a cap of 400.
Arbitrations:
New expedited arbitration language added that won’t let the company delay arbitrations for many months. The availability of the company’s attorney (or union’s) is ignored when scheduling arbitration dates. We will no longer have cross examination and briefs that take months.
Pilots who are disciplined are still protected for due process and not part of the expedited language. However, there will be much more time by the union (and arbitrators) to focus on protecting pilots rather than contract interpretation arbitrations.
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