Quit SWA for UPS?
07-29-2006, 03:20 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
SWA-UPS,
I have been at SWA for 16 yrs. and have heard numerous stories of those who have left here for "greener" pastures. None, not one have been followed by a pleasant ending! SWA-USair, SWA-Cathay, SWA-United, SWA-Delta, etc., all have furloughs (some two times), divorces, and regrets for leaving.
If anyone has a story with a happy ending I would like to hear it and I think you should hear both sides. Wife?, kids?, almost a captain, your own happiness?, should all be factored in. We also asked for the productive schedules and guess what they are. I look for less productive lines with lots of long haul and trade trips accordingly
Someone may seem to have greener pastures they just use a different fertilizer and it doesn't smell good at times either! Good luck!
I have been at SWA for 16 yrs. and have heard numerous stories of those who have left here for "greener" pastures. None, not one have been followed by a pleasant ending! SWA-USair, SWA-Cathay, SWA-United, SWA-Delta, etc., all have furloughs (some two times), divorces, and regrets for leaving.
If anyone has a story with a happy ending I would like to hear it and I think you should hear both sides. Wife?, kids?, almost a captain, your own happiness?, should all be factored in. We also asked for the productive schedules and guess what they are. I look for less productive lines with lots of long haul and trade trips accordingly
Someone may seem to have greener pastures they just use a different fertilizer and it doesn't smell good at times either! Good luck!
07-29-2006, 03:55 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Dial-a-Flap
Posts: 231
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
OOTSK,
Whoa there fella.....a happy UPS pilot?????? Say it ain't so. Have you been asked if you are going into management? Seems like if you say anything positive around here about UPS you are "destined for management".
I hope this contract gets voted down. I think it eats up a lot of catptain positions and article 13 is a joke. The pay I could live with if everything else was fixed.
Like I said, its not perfect, but its a lot better than where I was!
See ya at the asc.
07-29-2006, 04:08 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 89
Here's a couple of thoughts. The job is much better in the left seat than the right. Since you are so close to upgrade, I guarantee that you will spend many miserable moments in the right seat of UPS thinking about how you could have been in the left seat at SWA.
The schedule also gets much better with time and seniority. You are young enough that you can spend a lot of time working pretty much whatever schedule you want at SWA. I flew a four day a couple of month's ago that had 6 legs over the four days. SWA has more variety than just about anyone. Plus the AM/PM segregation with no red eyes is something that has to be lost to be fully appreciated.
Here's another thought. You still have a long time to go. Both Boeing and Airbus are working on projects where the airplanes are flown from the ground with nothing more than a single 40K mechanic/loadmaster riding in the airplane or nobody at all. Do you know what those who are working on the projects call them? Freighters.
I have a friend who works for a software developement firm for simulator visuals that says that they are already developing the ground based pilot workstation technology. The military is driving interest in UAV development technology but they want the civilian side to provide a lot of the development capital. The good news is that they will still need pilots and the pilots will drive to work and not have any overnights. The bad news is that the pilots will be sitting in cubicles down(cigarette)wind from the controllers and they won't need very many of us. It may not happen real soon, but it will happen before you retire and it will happen in freight long before it happens in pax. The economics are just too overwhelming. Yes it is a stark concept, but the boxes aren't going to complain or write to their congressmen.
The schedule also gets much better with time and seniority. You are young enough that you can spend a lot of time working pretty much whatever schedule you want at SWA. I flew a four day a couple of month's ago that had 6 legs over the four days. SWA has more variety than just about anyone. Plus the AM/PM segregation with no red eyes is something that has to be lost to be fully appreciated.
Here's another thought. You still have a long time to go. Both Boeing and Airbus are working on projects where the airplanes are flown from the ground with nothing more than a single 40K mechanic/loadmaster riding in the airplane or nobody at all. Do you know what those who are working on the projects call them? Freighters.
I have a friend who works for a software developement firm for simulator visuals that says that they are already developing the ground based pilot workstation technology. The military is driving interest in UAV development technology but they want the civilian side to provide a lot of the development capital. The good news is that they will still need pilots and the pilots will drive to work and not have any overnights. The bad news is that the pilots will be sitting in cubicles down(cigarette)wind from the controllers and they won't need very many of us. It may not happen real soon, but it will happen before you retire and it will happen in freight long before it happens in pax. The economics are just too overwhelming. Yes it is a stark concept, but the boxes aren't going to complain or write to their congressmen.
07-29-2006, 07:23 PM
#27
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 737 F/O
Posts: 6
"I have been at SWA for 16 yrs. and have heard numerous stories of those who have left here for "greener" pastures. None, not one have been followed by a pleasant ending!"
Great post OscartheGrouch. You are totally correct. I have yet to hear those stories either. I think I'll take your advice in the short run with regard to flying less legs. I have been putting too much weight on commutable trips and most times those trips suck. Thanks for the advice.
Great post OscartheGrouch. You are totally correct. I have yet to hear those stories either. I think I'll take your advice in the short run with regard to flying less legs. I have been putting too much weight on commutable trips and most times those trips suck. Thanks for the advice.
07-29-2006, 07:42 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: DHC-8 SIC
Posts: 634
No experience!
Now this is coming from a person with 0 flight hours and 0 experience about the industry. Mind you, I have done a lot of research about the airline industry. Just last night I was trying to explain to my mom about my plans for the future. That it is important that I start my flight training now and by the time I graduate with a BS in 2-3 years I get done with most of my ratings, as well as my long term plans for working at a cargo career like Fedex or UPS.
I work at retail now and I think dealing with customers can get a little old after a while. I have read biographies of many pilots who worked their rear ends off jobs and worked hard on college degrees, borrowed less money, and are now doing great in their careers. They are in a position to give advice to wannabees like us. After all that hard work, don't you think that the last thing one want to deal is with customers? True the original poster is almost about to become a captain, he probably makes a really good salary, and also the airline is going great at this point. Why would he make the post? He is sick of his job. When I read things like this, I get more discouraged to even think about working for a PAX. If you did change your mind and go back to UPS which is difficult in your case considering you don't have your BS, it will be a rough road for you, and I think the above posts make that clear. It depends on your situation. Can you make that sacrifise? Can you regain that energy to start over again? If so, I am sure working for UPS will be much much much more rewarding in the long run.
I work at retail now and I think dealing with customers can get a little old after a while. I have read biographies of many pilots who worked their rear ends off jobs and worked hard on college degrees, borrowed less money, and are now doing great in their careers. They are in a position to give advice to wannabees like us. After all that hard work, don't you think that the last thing one want to deal is with customers? True the original poster is almost about to become a captain, he probably makes a really good salary, and also the airline is going great at this point. Why would he make the post? He is sick of his job. When I read things like this, I get more discouraged to even think about working for a PAX. If you did change your mind and go back to UPS which is difficult in your case considering you don't have your BS, it will be a rough road for you, and I think the above posts make that clear. It depends on your situation. Can you make that sacrifise? Can you regain that energy to start over again? If so, I am sure working for UPS will be much much much more rewarding in the long run.
07-29-2006, 09:53 PM
#30
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 16
"The reason I'm considering leaving is that I'm tired of TSA, rude pax, back-stabbing employees, sickening political correctness, commuting, and flying 800+ hours a year with 25 minute turns.
Some thoughts from a SWA captain:
1. If TSA, pax, fellow employees, PC, et al, are the main reasons for leaving a solid job with the most secure pax carrier, then I'm going to go out on a psychological limb and say you are wound a little too tight. I seriously doubt you would be stress-free in any work environment in the year 2006.
2. Look for good-looking chicks when you are going through security. Do anything to take your mind off the ridiculous show that is unfolding around you. Mentally undress the best-looking gal you see...try it...it works! Consider doing the FFDO gig...sign your name and head to your gate.
3. Although the company certainly encourages pilot involvement with the pax, NOTHING says you HAVE to do ANYTHING with them. Stay in the cockpit, or finish your duties and go to the terminal for a brisk walk and restroom break. Do whatever to avoid contact if it bugs you so much. Frankly, a contemptuous attitude does more harm than good. Stay away from the pax! (Maybe this is also an offshoot of being a commuter and spending more time in the cabin in uniform?)
4. Never say or do questionable things around fellow employees. Use my philosophy: Don't trust anyone to not write you up for doing something which crosses a line; hence don't cross the line. Be cordial, be friendly. But don't talk about things which might get you in trouble. You don't really know that flight attendant you met at the beginning of the day. She could be a total whacko job! Play it safe and you will never have to worry about it. This goes double for the overnights!! Discretion, discretion, discretion.
5. As for PC, I am also appalled at what it has done to the workplace. But here's the difference between me and you perhaps: I don't let it get to me. This falls into the category of "I can't do anything about it, so why worry about it?" Here's a great philosophy handed down from my father: "Worry about the things you CAN control, not the things you can't."
6. Commuting...you know what I'm going to say, so I won't even say it. I will say this however--commuting makes this an entirely different job experience, and magnifies the fatigue factor exponentially.
7. As for the "SWA works my butt off" stuff, I have to take exception. SWA pilots who want to work their butt off do that. SWA pilots who want more time off use the available resources available to reduce their schedules. ELITT down, giveaway, trip trade, etc. all combine to make SWA one of the best companies for flexibility of schedule. OTOH, monthly and daily open time, extra fly, VJA, ELITT up, adding giveaways, etc. are all there enticing you to work mo' for mo' money. SWA was built on the greed factor. The reason we have fewer pilots per jet is because so many of our pilots willfully work extra. It's a personal choice. I have only exceeded 800 hours once--probation year when I had no choice because of the pay cut. I routinely create three weeks off for family fun. Do you take advantage of the unbelievably generous vacation system? If you aren't turning every week of vacation into at least two off, then you need to talk with someone who knows how to bid vacation.
I'm not trying to disparage you or make light of your situation and thoughts. I, too, will add that I am unaware of a single "SWA-to-other flying job" success story. I am painfully aware of the multitude of sad ones, though. Another poster mentioned how better the job became after you move to the left seat. That is undeniably true and accurate. But when I look at everything you have shared here, I surmise the combination of being a commuter who lets minutia get under your skin might be more of a factor than the environment of SWA. I would at least wait until upgrade before doing anything, and strongly consider moving near one of our domiciles.
Just my 2 cents.
Some thoughts from a SWA captain:
1. If TSA, pax, fellow employees, PC, et al, are the main reasons for leaving a solid job with the most secure pax carrier, then I'm going to go out on a psychological limb and say you are wound a little too tight. I seriously doubt you would be stress-free in any work environment in the year 2006.
2. Look for good-looking chicks when you are going through security. Do anything to take your mind off the ridiculous show that is unfolding around you. Mentally undress the best-looking gal you see...try it...it works! Consider doing the FFDO gig...sign your name and head to your gate.
3. Although the company certainly encourages pilot involvement with the pax, NOTHING says you HAVE to do ANYTHING with them. Stay in the cockpit, or finish your duties and go to the terminal for a brisk walk and restroom break. Do whatever to avoid contact if it bugs you so much. Frankly, a contemptuous attitude does more harm than good. Stay away from the pax! (Maybe this is also an offshoot of being a commuter and spending more time in the cabin in uniform?)
4. Never say or do questionable things around fellow employees. Use my philosophy: Don't trust anyone to not write you up for doing something which crosses a line; hence don't cross the line. Be cordial, be friendly. But don't talk about things which might get you in trouble. You don't really know that flight attendant you met at the beginning of the day. She could be a total whacko job! Play it safe and you will never have to worry about it. This goes double for the overnights!! Discretion, discretion, discretion.
5. As for PC, I am also appalled at what it has done to the workplace. But here's the difference between me and you perhaps: I don't let it get to me. This falls into the category of "I can't do anything about it, so why worry about it?" Here's a great philosophy handed down from my father: "Worry about the things you CAN control, not the things you can't."
6. Commuting...you know what I'm going to say, so I won't even say it. I will say this however--commuting makes this an entirely different job experience, and magnifies the fatigue factor exponentially.
7. As for the "SWA works my butt off" stuff, I have to take exception. SWA pilots who want to work their butt off do that. SWA pilots who want more time off use the available resources available to reduce their schedules. ELITT down, giveaway, trip trade, etc. all combine to make SWA one of the best companies for flexibility of schedule. OTOH, monthly and daily open time, extra fly, VJA, ELITT up, adding giveaways, etc. are all there enticing you to work mo' for mo' money. SWA was built on the greed factor. The reason we have fewer pilots per jet is because so many of our pilots willfully work extra. It's a personal choice. I have only exceeded 800 hours once--probation year when I had no choice because of the pay cut. I routinely create three weeks off for family fun. Do you take advantage of the unbelievably generous vacation system? If you aren't turning every week of vacation into at least two off, then you need to talk with someone who knows how to bid vacation.
I'm not trying to disparage you or make light of your situation and thoughts. I, too, will add that I am unaware of a single "SWA-to-other flying job" success story. I am painfully aware of the multitude of sad ones, though. Another poster mentioned how better the job became after you move to the left seat. That is undeniably true and accurate. But when I look at everything you have shared here, I surmise the combination of being a commuter who lets minutia get under your skin might be more of a factor than the environment of SWA. I would at least wait until upgrade before doing anything, and strongly consider moving near one of our domiciles.
Just my 2 cents.
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