rickair7777

This is true...since UA has contracts (some long term) with their regionals, it would be almost impossible to immediately roll back scope to 50 seats. The pilot group would have to pay the cancellation fees out of their own pockets...basically the cost all leases and parking fees on all 70 seaters, plus a profit margin. The regionals are not going to give up profitable flying if they don't get their markup.

Plus the regionals would be killing their own golden goose...more likely they will not settle for merely expenses + a reasonable markup, they demand a ridiculous amount to walk away.

I an addition to paying off the regionals, the CALUA pilots would also have to give concessions to their own managers to incentive the scope change.

The negotiating dollar values are off the scale here.

The regional landscape immediately after the merger will be same-O, same-O....longer term, the new pilot group could try to roll back scope to 51 seats.

They can't do that either, without the consent of the CAL pilot group.

757Driver

Not good enough I'm afraid. I say let the current contracts run their course then revert to the 50 seat scope with all 50+ seat flying done by mainline UAL Pilots.

Can't figure out why so many guys are so willing to sell themselves short all the time?

Superpilot92

Just remember the Midwest guys and what the effects of not having solid scope mean. You can have everyones pay rate at $300 an hour but if if your jobs can be outsourced then the rest of your contract is WORTHLESS. SCOPE should be a front burner issue. Look at what UAL is trying with Air Lingus!! Its not just about the junior guys, they want to outsource your widebody flying also. Dont let it happen.

Put a permanent cap on outsourcing. Tell em they can have any size jet they want from this point forward but any additional airframe MUST have a UAL/CAL pilot at the controls. Pay rates come and go but once jobs are outsourced its next to impossible to get them back.

Shrek

This is the way to go - in time the 70 seat contracts would die off and slowly revert back to 50 seat scope period.

Scope is not one thing in the contract it should be the number 1 thing in the contract.

thepotato232

As a current regional puke, I know this merger is anything but a done deal, and I understand the need to keep my comments short and let the adults do the talking, but:

Look at the current state of the UAL narrow body fleets. Look at their mainline vs. regional departure statistics. Look at their furlough list. All of this is according to the plan of UAL's current management. Since he showed up on property, Tilton has displayed a near-pathological desire to cripple his own company in the long term in order to ensure a merger. Now that his objective nears completion, I doubt very much that he and the UAL management group have a real plan to lead the company back to viability. The unified pilot group needs to do everything in their power, however painful the process will be, to limit such destructive practices.

Pushing to adopt CAL's scope, instead of allowing UAL's current scope nightmare to expand to a largely healthy airline, would be the SINGLE MOST POWERFUL action a pilot group could take to reverse the downward trend this profession has followed for the past decade+. Every day I come on here, I hear the usual hawkish comments about "taking it back", "getting the camel out of the tent", etc. I've heard about how much people have learned from the past mistakes of scope relaxation. As difficult as the still-hypothetical merger would be for all involved, it strikes this outside observer as the first real opportunity to take a stand on this issue.

Having flown both turboprops and jets, here and abroad, my current position is as an FO on a plane entirely too large to be an RJ. I got into this industry because I saw first-hand what kind of company UAL used to be. I, and many others, would be happy to go right back out on furlough again if it meant UAL/CAL limited scope to fifty seats. It would be clear evidence that people are still willing to fight for this profession.

-$.02

AAflyer

Keep the good fight guys, you must know the rest of us are watching. It is the battle royal here at AMR as we fight for the 70-100 seat jets to be flown here at mainline. Having the worlds largest airline fly these makes it more negotiable for us, helps DAL and the rest as well.

AA

acl65pilot

Yep, Pattern Bargaining has it pluses.

Fritzthepilot

Well, this is one thing a CAL and UAL pilot can agree on. Let the contracts unwind and then we take take the 50+ planes back. It's time to stand for something. Together.

littlebuddha

ALL flying should be held by the Major entity, by pilots on the SAME seniority list, not just the flying above 50 seats, there should be no "regional" status only "Major"....

Eric Stratton

What deal do you think needs to be worked out? Can anyone fly a 100 seat airplane other than CAL or United? I'm pretty sure they are the only ones that are allowed right now so I don't think there has to be a deal worked out.

Nothing is stopping management from flying 100 seat airplanes except themselves.