Palmtree Pilot

I like the optimism, and you're right that it's not rocket science. But economics are not simple anymore, and excutives have figured out how to deal with supply and demand in new and creative ways. Your four points are legit, but that is in a perfect world with many moons aligned.

What if one or two more company go TU. How long would it take to absorb another 3-6K + pilots that can't find other industries to go into in a 8-10% unemployment economy?

What if BIG BROTHER decides to raise the mandatory retirement to 70 because SS is going dry faster than they thought; Which it is predicted to 6 yrs early now than the last prediction.

What will Cap and Trade do to our industry?

Will people come back as the consumers that they once were after this deep recession with screwed-up credit and low retirement savings? Will they decide that they don't want the cheapest tickets anymore?

There are a ton of furloughed pilots out there that still could be absorbed by any expansion anytime soon. There are SO many variables anymore in this economy and this industry that I think it is very hard to say whether this will have any affect or not.

Also, please explain to me how increased cost gives start-ups and regionals the ability to quickly expand. If they can quickly expand, how does that slow down the cut-throat under bidding; If they can all expand so quickly the flying will go to the lowest bidder or the cheapest ticket selling start-up.

Just keeping the conversation going, but I'll stop playing the devil's advocate.

Pt P

Godzilla

Under our legislation, all airline pilots must obtain an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) license, which is currently only mandatory for an airline captain. The ATP requires a minimum of 1,500 flight hours and additional aeronautical knowledge, crew resource management training, and greater flight proficiency testing.


Thats the best news I have seen come out in a long time.

How will one get the time?
Just like we used to. Scenic rides,night frieght,traffic watch,flight instructing and generally showing some hustle and ingenuity.

beech1980

i think the 1500tt is just a number, instructing in arizona or florida doesnt do S#*t, lets do what the fracs did before the regionals destroyed the experienced pilot pool.This will really raise the bar go to 2500tt and 500tt turbine and an atp. go back to what net jets and flexjets required before the airlines caved! i know the guys and girls with 700 hours arent gonna agree with this, but in the long term they will appreciatie it.

beech1980

like i said instruct a 1000 hrs and do 1000hrs of 135 in a king air or a lear/citation, then ur at 2500ish and u can really appreciatie the experience. now you are licensed to get your atp, and get the cofee ice and papers. lol. hopefully now you wont crap ur pant when u go into sfo or lax and get a flow time and dont know what to tell your captain. now maybe with some time you will be worth your weight and not requirement!!

beech1980

JUST VENTING!!! this job is fun! lets all try to keep it this way!!!

r1830

I am all for raising the mins, but this bill in my opinion will result in very low pay for 135 and flight instructors. Even worse, the people that should instruct in my opinion should have experience too. The student pilot is going to get shafted by the instructors who are just trying to build time. The mid time pilot who is just shy of 1500 hours will either get very low pay or not hired at all because they will leave the company in a short time and are not worth training. This is one of the many reasons regionals hired such low time pilots. They got more years out of the low time FO for training who could not go anywhere. Conversely there were several cases in which companies hired an experienced pilot gave them a type rating and a little jet time and the pilot left less than a year later. If you were a bean counter trying to save money in this backwards industry, one way to save money immediately is minimize training costs and maximize low pay employees. This bill will effectively shift the low pay one rung down the ladder.

newarkblows

The flight duty time restructuring might be worse for us then many think. High speed overnights might not be fun for some but some people like them. I havent seen them in a long time but when they did exist they went very senior. Guys that wanted to get home to see the kids in the daytime. Doing away with them and making our flight duty times more rigid will be good for safety but bad for allowing us to pick and choose a flexible schedule.

Less duty time per day + less hours per day = less days off for the same pay.

Anybody can build hours. Instructing is a good skill to learn and can pay you back in a lot of different careers. I am hoping the 1500 hr minimum gives pilots time to learn a little bit more about the airlines they are applying to. It used to be people would throw out their apps at ridiculously low time just to see if they could interview. Colgan would call and two days later they were hired "airline pilots" without a clue how poor of an operation colgan was. We needed this regulation to protect us from ourselves and greedy management. We are too competitive and management is in the race to the cheapest product.

BoilerUP

How exactly did the regionals "destroy the experienced pilot pool"?

Regional airlines weren't hiring the same kind of pilots that Flex and NJA were hiring...and neither Flex or NJA were ever lacking resumes.

Captain Bligh

Everyone is missing the real "best news" in this legislation. It will force some truth in advertising. If you work for a major you have invested in your company's image. For years they have been re-selling that image to the lowest bidder. Making it obviously apparent to the buyer exactly what airline will be conducting the flight under the brand name, may help minimize the need for stronger scope.

Regardless of the statistical truth, if the public perception is that regional airlines are less safe, they may start to be willing to spend just a little bit more on a ticket, knowing they'll be riding on the major's "big plane", with major pilots at the controls. Maybe just maybe we'll see a turn from the race to the basement as people blindly click on the lowest fare?

CaptainTeezy

Maybe I missed something...but I never saw anything that specifically said you must have x amout of crew hours to get an ATP or work for a 121 operation. I just saw the common code word of TRAINING for an ATP or an airline. So who ever does your ATP or airline hiring would probably be forced to have some new specific TRAINING for your multi crew experience. Anyone have any thoughts????