UAL firms order for Rolls Royce powered A350
03-16-2010, 05:45 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 230
I really don't want to get into this. I have no ill will towards any of you guys. Too bad you cannot say the same. You conveniently blame the DAL pilots in the same breath as DAL management for everything from the demise of Eastern to the Lindbergh baby. Sorry I'm not biting on that one. Oh, but one last thing. I lost 46% of my pay and my pension too, so in that respect, we are on the same page.
I was simply defending another pilot. I have no ill will towards you. When I see other pilots actively working against my benefit, it repulses me. I have seen enough of that in the past 10 years to fill my career.
If you carry a picket sign, I would be more than willing to carry one alongside you. What benefits you will eventually benefit me. What harms you will eventually harm me.
03-16-2010, 05:59 PM
#32
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I have no idea. Is that germain to our discussion and if so, how would the DAL pilots have any say so in that?
we have all seen enough of that in our careers. And in your last paragraph.. you are correct sir.
I was simply defending another pilot. I have no ill will towards you. When I see other pilots actively working against my benefit, it repulses me. I have seen enough of that in the past 10 years to fill my career.
If you carry a picket sign, I would be more than willing to carry one alongside you. What benefits you will eventually benefit me. What harms you will eventually harm me.
If you carry a picket sign, I would be more than willing to carry one alongside you. What benefits you will eventually benefit me. What harms you will eventually harm me.
03-16-2010, 07:55 PM
#33
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 172
At United during the same time, he witnessed a major US international carrier pilot group take a pay cut in an attempt to put a nail in the United coffin. He witnessed some pilot groups initiate a letter writing campaign to prevent United from getting an ATSB loan guarantee.
03-16-2010, 09:58 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Le Bus
Posts: 382
Yep, I sure remember.
03-17-2010, 03:51 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,576
Skypest,
Do you have any proof of a concerted effort that nwa alpa was campaigning against ual's loan request? I think you are painting with a very large brush. Were there individuals writing letters? Probably. The bulk of us realized what this was. It was a resetting of the industry/profession due to an aligning of the stars so to speak. You and usair were the weakest links and were picked off first, followed by nwa and dal. AA, capitulated early (my guess is believing they had the most to gain with your demise). Now, if you and your buddy on here with 27 years would like to thump your chests and point fingers, might I point out Ual alpas dealings with the original frontier. Pot meet kettle......
Do you have any proof of a concerted effort that nwa alpa was campaigning against ual's loan request? I think you are painting with a very large brush. Were there individuals writing letters? Probably. The bulk of us realized what this was. It was a resetting of the industry/profession due to an aligning of the stars so to speak. You and usair were the weakest links and were picked off first, followed by nwa and dal. AA, capitulated early (my guess is believing they had the most to gain with your demise). Now, if you and your buddy on here with 27 years would like to thump your chests and point fingers, might I point out Ual alpas dealings with the original frontier. Pot meet kettle......
03-17-2010, 04:22 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Skypest,
Do you have any proof of a concerted effort that nwa alpa was campaigning against ual's loan request? I think you are painting with a very large brush. Were there individuals writing letters? Probably. The bulk of us realized what this was. It was a resetting of the industry/profession due to an aligning of the stars so to speak. You and usair were the weakest links and were picked off first, followed by nwa and dal. AA, capitulated early (my guess is believing they had the most to gain with your demise). Now, if you and your buddy on here with 27 years would like to thump your chests and point fingers, might I point out Ual alpas dealings with the original frontier. Pot meet kettle......
Do you have any proof of a concerted effort that nwa alpa was campaigning against ual's loan request? I think you are painting with a very large brush. Were there individuals writing letters? Probably. The bulk of us realized what this was. It was a resetting of the industry/profession due to an aligning of the stars so to speak. You and usair were the weakest links and were picked off first, followed by nwa and dal. AA, capitulated early (my guess is believing they had the most to gain with your demise). Now, if you and your buddy on here with 27 years would like to thump your chests and point fingers, might I point out Ual alpas dealings with the original frontier. Pot meet kettle......
I did not thump my chest but yes that type of stuff with regards to alpa at nwa and other places does bother me. The loan request did but what bothered me more is when the nwa alpa volunteered a 15% paycut to try to push ual into ch-7. Now that was nice alpa brother.
03-17-2010, 05:19 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,576
Nice what you did to your Frontier alpa brothers. With 27 years you were a part of that. Now, do you really think that the pilots of NWA voted for a 15% cut with the thinking that it would help drive UAL out of business, or do you think it was an attempt to stabilize the company and avoid ch11? Do you really think little ole NWA (being half the size of ual) could do this? Where is your anger at the APA? They bent over early and took it deep with just the threat of ch11. Who do you think would have gained the most by your demise? We (NWA) were the last to take concessions. As a matter of fact we got pay raises after you were in ch11 for over a year and did not take any concessions until you had been in over 2. Also, don't forget who went on strike in 1998 to get this pattern bargaining game going in the right direction again after the givebacks of the early 90s. Without our sacrifice there would have been no Delta dot and thus no contract 2000. So save your indignation for someone else.
Nerd,
I did not thump my chest but yes that type of stuff with regards to alpa at nwa and other places does bother me. The loan request did but what bothered me more is when the nwa alpa volunteered a 15% paycut to try to push ual into ch-7. Now that was nice alpa brother.
I did not thump my chest but yes that type of stuff with regards to alpa at nwa and other places does bother me. The loan request did but what bothered me more is when the nwa alpa volunteered a 15% paycut to try to push ual into ch-7. Now that was nice alpa brother.
03-17-2010, 05:27 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Nice what you did to your Frontier alpa brothers. With 27 years you were a part of that. Now, do you really think that the pilots of NWA voted for a 15% cut with the thinking that it would help drive UAL out of business, or do you think it was an attempt to stabilize the company and avoid ch11? Do you really think little ole NWA (being half the size of ual) could do this? Where is your anger at the APA? They bent over early and took it deep with just the threat of ch11. Who do you think would have gained the most by your demise? We (NWA) were the last to take concessions. As a matter of fact we got pay raises after you were in ch11 for over a year and did not take any concessions until you had been in over 2. Also, don't forget who went on strike in 1998 to get this pattern bargaining game going in the right direction again after the givebacks of the early 90s. Without our sacrifice there would have been no Delta dot and thus no contract 2000. So save your indignation for someone else.
03-17-2010, 08:02 AM
#39
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 172
Skypest,
Do you have any proof of a concerted effort that nwa alpa was campaigning against ual's loan request? I think you are painting with a very large brush. Were there individuals writing letters? Probably. The bulk of us realized what this was. It was a resetting of the industry/profession due to an aligning of the stars so to speak. You and usair were the weakest links and were picked off first, followed by nwa and dal. AA, capitulated early (my guess is believing they had the most to gain with your demise). Now, if you and your buddy on here with 27 years would like to thump your chests and point fingers, might I point out Ual alpas dealings with the original frontier. Pot meet kettle......
Do you have any proof of a concerted effort that nwa alpa was campaigning against ual's loan request? I think you are painting with a very large brush. Were there individuals writing letters? Probably. The bulk of us realized what this was. It was a resetting of the industry/profession due to an aligning of the stars so to speak. You and usair were the weakest links and were picked off first, followed by nwa and dal. AA, capitulated early (my guess is believing they had the most to gain with your demise). Now, if you and your buddy on here with 27 years would like to thump your chests and point fingers, might I point out Ual alpas dealings with the original frontier. Pot meet kettle......
If you re-read my statement you will see no chest beating.
So you now defend the actions of your association on a "aligning of the stars". Nice.
I was not at United when the original Frontier was around so..... no need to introduce me to any kettle.
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