Interesting experience
02-14-2010, 10:31 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: A320
Posts: 1,316
Interesting experience
This may or may not sound out of the ordinary to anyone else but it did stand out as an interesting experience for me today.
I was headed back home (as a non-rev) on a 757 and we just started our descent and probably leveled off somewhere around FL250. I know we were coming up over the northside of JFK at the time we leveled off. I wasn't really paying attention but when I think back to it this was our approximate position.
Anyhow I was up in 1st class with a window seat and I was working on my computer when I started to feel something wasn't quite right and noticed an odd view of the horizon out of the side of my eye. At the time I was listening to music so sound wasn't really something I noticed. When I looked outside I noticed we were climbing now but at a very steep angle. I just wondered a little why we had started to climb again after having started our arrival. No biggie, just never noticed it before. So now that my music has ended I also noticed that the engines are at Idle and we are climbing. Ok, just a little bit out of the norm. This whole time I'm just looking out the window noticing that we have gotten quite a bit slower on the ground speed. Just an over all weird feeling. Sort of like during a power off stall. Finally the engines spooled up rapidly and the nose came over hard with a gradual decent followed by a level off with the engines still at a high power setting while level for a bit. It even got squirly kind of like when you recover from a stall. It was quite clear out so this was easy to precieve. I wouldn't consider myself an alarmist and I used to do areobatic instruction so I don't get worked up too easy but this really felt unusual. My first thought was that we had either stalled (which I know is HIGHLY unlikely) or we had a control or FMC malfunction.
I'm not sure how aggressive the autopilot is on the 757 but this sure felt like it was done manually. And to be quite honest it almost felt like something the pusher would do (which I'm also sure is HIGHLY unlikely). I know that sounds like a poor assumption but I go back and forth on this flight all too much and have never noticed anything like that. The flight was smooth with very little turbulence.
About 3-4 minutes after this all occured the crew came on for an arrival PA. Who ever was giving the PA sounded very bothered by something. He was sort of stubling over his words. He mentioned that we just hit some odd kind of turbulence and turned on the seatbelt light. The guy next to me had commented on how he (the pilot) didn't sound very happy about something.
After we landed I was waiting for everyone to get off and the flight attendant started talking to me. She asked if I had noticed the "unusual attidude" of the aircraft followed by the "roller coaster" feeling. I told her I had no clue what it was and we talked for a little longer. I was going to ask the crew about it but noticed the cockpit door was still shut. It had been closed for a few minutes after eveyone had gotten off.
Finally when they did come out and I was getting my stuff ready to go I asked the CA about it. I pretty much just got a weird vibe and he ignored me. In no way did I approach him or ask him while anyone was around. They knew I was a pilot.
All I can say is that it was a little un-nerving to be strapped to a large peice of metal that started pitching up to that degree and no power increase. But hey, we survived
.
The End.
Anyone have any input?
I was headed back home (as a non-rev) on a 757 and we just started our descent and probably leveled off somewhere around FL250. I know we were coming up over the northside of JFK at the time we leveled off. I wasn't really paying attention but when I think back to it this was our approximate position.
Anyhow I was up in 1st class with a window seat and I was working on my computer when I started to feel something wasn't quite right and noticed an odd view of the horizon out of the side of my eye. At the time I was listening to music so sound wasn't really something I noticed. When I looked outside I noticed we were climbing now but at a very steep angle. I just wondered a little why we had started to climb again after having started our arrival. No biggie, just never noticed it before. So now that my music has ended I also noticed that the engines are at Idle and we are climbing. Ok, just a little bit out of the norm. This whole time I'm just looking out the window noticing that we have gotten quite a bit slower on the ground speed. Just an over all weird feeling. Sort of like during a power off stall. Finally the engines spooled up rapidly and the nose came over hard with a gradual decent followed by a level off with the engines still at a high power setting while level for a bit. It even got squirly kind of like when you recover from a stall. It was quite clear out so this was easy to precieve. I wouldn't consider myself an alarmist and I used to do areobatic instruction so I don't get worked up too easy but this really felt unusual. My first thought was that we had either stalled (which I know is HIGHLY unlikely) or we had a control or FMC malfunction.
I'm not sure how aggressive the autopilot is on the 757 but this sure felt like it was done manually. And to be quite honest it almost felt like something the pusher would do (which I'm also sure is HIGHLY unlikely). I know that sounds like a poor assumption but I go back and forth on this flight all too much and have never noticed anything like that. The flight was smooth with very little turbulence.
About 3-4 minutes after this all occured the crew came on for an arrival PA. Who ever was giving the PA sounded very bothered by something. He was sort of stubling over his words. He mentioned that we just hit some odd kind of turbulence and turned on the seatbelt light. The guy next to me had commented on how he (the pilot) didn't sound very happy about something.
After we landed I was waiting for everyone to get off and the flight attendant started talking to me. She asked if I had noticed the "unusual attidude" of the aircraft followed by the "roller coaster" feeling. I told her I had no clue what it was and we talked for a little longer. I was going to ask the crew about it but noticed the cockpit door was still shut. It had been closed for a few minutes after eveyone had gotten off.
Finally when they did come out and I was getting my stuff ready to go I asked the CA about it. I pretty much just got a weird vibe and he ignored me. In no way did I approach him or ask him while anyone was around. They knew I was a pilot.
All I can say is that it was a little un-nerving to be strapped to a large peice of metal that started pitching up to that degree and no power increase. But hey, we survived
.The End.
Anyone have any input?
02-15-2010, 06:24 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
afterburn81 - your gut may be right. Without knowing your background except a picture of a F-14, I have no clue where you have been in life.
There could be all sorts of answer to your question. On an arrival, you never climb unless something out of the ordinary happens. Proof is with the cockpit door staying closed until all pax get off the airplane.
Now what is out of the ordinary. Several things could shake a pilot up. One being some sort of a RA from the TCAS, and another is a stall. Which could have been started by the RA. One other thing could be the 757 descended to much on the arrival and the crew tried to cover their mistake and get back to altitude, hence a near stall. Many other factors...
80ktsclamp - you are very correct. afterburn is looking out the side of an airplane, he should know better with inner ear issues by turning and twisting your neck (especially when you move fast).
afterburn - You lived to tell about it, hopefully nothing ever happens to you again in your career, whatever that career is...
There could be all sorts of answer to your question. On an arrival, you never climb unless something out of the ordinary happens. Proof is with the cockpit door staying closed until all pax get off the airplane.
Now what is out of the ordinary. Several things could shake a pilot up. One being some sort of a RA from the TCAS, and another is a stall. Which could have been started by the RA. One other thing could be the 757 descended to much on the arrival and the crew tried to cover their mistake and get back to altitude, hence a near stall. Many other factors...
80ktsclamp - you are very correct. afterburn is looking out the side of an airplane, he should know better with inner ear issues by turning and twisting your neck (especially when you move fast).
afterburn - You lived to tell about it, hopefully nothing ever happens to you again in your career, whatever that career is...
02-15-2010, 06:34 AM
#6
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
For what it is worth on the Lendy Arrival you are at LGA at 190 . When you lit LGA they will generally turn you South and ask you for the crowbar(quick descent with a turn) They want you down to 2,000 as quick as you can make it there.
02-15-2010, 07:24 AM
#8
Recommend Retention
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Bigfoot
Posts: 1,077
There is no stick pusher on the 757. Like others suggested, maybe it was in response to a RA. The autopilot and autothrottles can be aggressive on that airplane if rapid airspeed changes occur in a short time frame. On a positive note, at least you didn't spend big bucks for the ride.
02-15-2010, 07:25 AM
#9
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
lendy arrival
757 FMS arrival at Lendy can bite you due to the lower LGA restriction for the approach if no discontinuity and you dont take it out. It wants 2000 and 170 kts if i remember correctly. So on your way down for the 17000 restriction it sees 2000 and 170 kts. FMC commands pitch level and speed bug drops to 170. So a level off and 170 kts because the priority for the FMS at the time is 170 speed. I used to have it highlighted on my STAR. Stall NO! What is the this thing doing type scenario yes...
My $.02
My $.02
02-15-2010, 07:46 AM
#10
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Could be the slow down to get down maneuver. Pull the nose up to slow down, get drag out, then continue your decent. If you were planning to descend at 210 and got to say 205, the autothrottles would command power looking at maintaining speed. Winds aloft been gusty last few days.
Or ATC calls and says "speed up" which throws your carefully planned, efficient, idle descent out the window and you then comply with ATC's direction.
Wasn't much flying yesterday. After hitting fixes at the published speed, there were a lot of speed up clearances being made.
With parallel runway operations aircraft are sometimes asked to discontinue the approach and level off until ATC is assured parallel traffic is truly parallel and not coming over into your transgression zone. Then subsequent approach clearance results in your being a little high and faster than you would prefer to be. But if customers have comments I try to get the door open to hear their comments and mitigate any concerns before they seek possible answers from a web board.
Or ATC calls and says "speed up" which throws your carefully planned, efficient, idle descent out the window and you then comply with ATC's direction.
Wasn't much flying yesterday. After hitting fixes at the published speed, there were a lot of speed up clearances being made.
With parallel runway operations aircraft are sometimes asked to discontinue the approach and level off until ATC is assured parallel traffic is truly parallel and not coming over into your transgression zone. Then subsequent approach clearance results in your being a little high and faster than you would prefer to be. But if customers have comments I try to get the door open to hear their comments and mitigate any concerns before they seek possible answers from a web board.
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