MuseumDriver

Thanks Sky... Cant imagine that will get much respect. A turboprop guy training international heavy jet people...

ockham

The fact that what you say has not been true at any carrier I helped start, or worked at means nothing in this conversation. Have fun in your version of the world

ockham

I was at a fairly large outfit that the Director of Training was a flight attendant. He actually did a good job on the training schedule and he kept the records flawless. On a NASIP they actually said our records and FOTM were far better than most 121's they had seen.

B757200ER

Well, then you haven't been at recent start-ups like JetBlue, AirTran, Frontier, Spirit, North American, Polar/Atlas and even MAXJet. They've all gone to great pains to welcome pilots (and even FAs) onboard, and by rolling out the red carpet, they've been able to secure many reciprocal j/s agreements. EOS is unfortunately acquiring a very bad reputation in the j/s community by not allowing off-line pilots onboard their flights. They need to open up their seats, whether its 'Luxury Class', 'First Class', 'Cargo Class' or 'Cattle Class', it makes no difference. 'Reciprocity' is exactly that: It is NOT a one-way street.

ockham

Also the last time I jumpseated on Frontier there was a fellow from a carrier that was not on their list and he did not make it on the flight. I informed the Captain when I went down and he would have got him on but the other jumpseater left when he could not get by the gate agent. From what I have heard Eos is going by a list also, and it is growing all the time.

I think you are short changing all the hard work done by all the jumpseat folks at all the airlines that have worked so hard to make the present state of jumpseating what it is today. Each one of the pilot groups have fought a long uphill battle in some cases and even had to lose some ground on other issues at the table to secure jumpseats. My personal thanks goes out to all those individuals and from what is being said it seems that the Eos pilot group is fighting some of those same battles and indeed making progress. If they are the same as most airlines they are probably sacrificing personal time to do this work for the betterment of their pilot group at large.

My suggestion is how about backing off and letting these folks fight their battles. The answers are only within the realm of current possibilities, that certainly expand as time goes on. Take Delta for example it took years for the company to come around and now they even let on as many jumseaters as they have open seats. This would have been thought impossible just a few short years ago.

B757200ER

They've had 2 years, as of this summer. Plenty of time.

The difference between EOS and Delta is huge; DL was a major with worldwide routes. EOS has only 1 route, JFK-STN. EOS needs jumpseats to get their pilots to work, but almost noone uses them to commute. That is what I was referring to when I said this is not a ONE-way street.

ockham

Obviously you have never negotiated with management. It does not seem to me that they have been flying long enough for you to have such a strong opinion. Heck they are probably still trying to get through some basic certification issues. If they are slick they are probably just now getting their Cat3 certification, and that would be in the min timeframe. You can bet that other issues besides what some whiney pilots have are in the forefront of their days activities. For the pilots to get managements attention in most startups during the first few years, it comes in small spurts of time that you can actually sit down with them and work on issues. While these issues are big to us, most managers of a startup are just to busy trying to run an airline to focus exclusively on some issues.

While you initially posted some comments with an alturistic tone, it would seem to me that your lack of patience and compassion that comes through in later post belies a certain hidden agenda that you seem to have regarding Eos.

Ganbare

B757200ER, all I'm asking is to not punish the EOS pilots. Jumpseating is a two-way street as you say but it still seems like you are taking your anger out on the rank and file and not directing it where it belongs. But I share your pain, when I was with Transmeridian a few years back I could not use Continental to commute from home to Houston where I was based. I never figured out if it was the MEC or management that did not want a jumpseat agreement with TMA and in the end it didn't really matter. I too was not happy about it but I did recognize that it was not the individual pilot who was to blame. If you see an EOS pilot in the terminal don't frown but tip your hat instead. Understand that each of the pilots you see is working very hard to change management's attitude about jumpseating. It is the EOS management that is attracting the bad reputation, it should not be the pilots.

Ganbare

MuseumDriver

B757... How long have you been in this industry? A 757 Captain? The "one way street" you refer to isnt an EOS pilots fault, its not the EOS pilots fault that they have one route at the present time. What are your thoughts on my type of flying? I work mostly through the night if its domestic, its rare that you would show up and ride our jumpseats... if that is not convenient for you does that mean I shouldnt have the priviledge of riding on your airline? Did your carrier come right out of the box with a full route structure, I doubt it? Why would you be so anti jumpseater? Unless a pilot group specifically made a stand to give up jumpseats for a pay increase cant you just smile and say "welcome aboard, glad we could get you there"? Ive only done this for 15 years... I can count on one hand how many times in my career I have been turned away from a jumpseat (never due to your reasoning, the seat was simply taken) or observed a jumpseat being denied. The last time I remember a jumpseat denied was a Delta pilot trying to ride on the Delta commuter I was employed with at the time. The deal was, a Delta pilot could simply walk up to the ticket counter and pay $15 on the spot for a pass so they really didnt "need" the jumpseat whereas for the Delta Connection pilot had to submit a written request through a pass bureau 2 weeks ahead at the low cost of $150. The scales werent exactly balanced there. The Delta guy was most likely making 6 figures and gets a pass for $15 on the spot, versus the commuter guy making $35,000 and has to pay $150 for a pass? When the Delta guy approached the ticket counter it was actually one of our flight attendants stading there, he didnt ask in the friendliest fashion for the ride... this flight attendant (been around a while and knew all too well of this battle) politely informed him he might be better off paying the $15 for a pass. The Delta guy became angry and told her "You know, with my ID I can just go right down stairs through operations and walk out to the airplane to see the captain". She smiled and said that might be a good idea... It was a much shorter trip for her to walk down the jet bridge so its easy to figure out who made it to the cockpit first. It only took about 30 seconds for this guy to be told to find a ride somewhere else.

B757200ER

Thanks for the lecture, MD. And that long, boring story. To answer you, I've been doing this 14 years. I know all about jumpseating and was an ALPA Jumpseat Chairman for a time. EOS pilots are welcome on my j/s---for now---but better get their managers to play ball.

End of story.