Sink r8

I've said before that this could be a case of "Winners Lose". But maybe not... From a pilot perspective, it's possible there is a silver lining in this for both of us.

1) I think your airline will learn to bypass Tokyo altogether for your Asian routes (i.e. with 787's). Organic growth is good for pilots.

2) My airline won't see the existing Tokyo hub undermined, and may see it strengthened instead. We may shift more Asia flying to JAL, and we may do more of the lift between the US and NRT/HND. Hard to tell if the flying ends up being a net gain, neutral, or a loss for us. I would imagine we'll have a JV deal that keeps it "fair", just as we have an agreement with the AF/KLM flying.

John Pennekamp

FWIW, I was referring to the whipsaw, RFPs (race to the bottom), and outsourcing of field stations (RHS) that we've seen at DCI.

I fully understand the situation with Comair asking for a quid to hire your furloughees. I was an ASA ALPA rep at the time, and during a joint MEC meeting, we expressed to the CMR MEC that we didn't think what they were doing was productive, and that we weren't going to join them. But, FWIW, we welcomed the DL furloughees at ASA with open arms, and only maybe 30-50 came to work here. Hardly groundswell. Did you apply? Would you have been interested in flying right seat in a CRJ for $19k a year? I think the "CMR wouldn't hire our furloughees" thing is more of a rallying cry against a pilot group the DAL pilots simply don't like than anything else. Even if they did offer to hire them without conditions, i doubt very many would have gone.

Jay5150

No, I wouldn't have applied because I was lucky enough to find a job that paid better. Many guys did. Not just to DCI, to regionals everywhere because maybe the base was more convinient. That was only one thing though. We could get into the outsourcing, massive pay cuts, pension termination, etc.etc... The point was, I don't think that the vast majority of the 12,000+ here need anyone to open our eyes to what management is capable of. Most guys at DAL have been here a minimum of 9 years all the way up to 30 plus. Name the situation, and many have been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

WRT the JAL thing, like Phallus said, most don't know how this will play out. Assuming it actually goes through, from a pilots perspective, I'm not sure who just won, us or AMR. I just think it presumtuous(sp?) to assume we will now be losing international flying. It's my understanding that our contract has tight JV and codeshare language.

InformationEcho

One could say it's about you doing theirs.

InformationEcho

You want the physical seat too eh? Cheers.

Sink r8

One couldn't do that, since one doesn't have any announcement to look at.

It should be noted that we have a significant operation beyond Tokyo. As things get announced maybe JAL gets to do more of that. We have a lot of people sweating what happens there.

Furthermore, one cannot ignore the context in which JAL would be parking aircraft: they are reorganizing. They (the Japanese government and the creditors) are making their own decisions about what the new company will look like and what they will axe. In that context, some of what is theirs (the JAL pilots') today will be lost through that process.

While I bear no guilt in their predicament, I feel great sympathy towards JAL pilots for the pain they will endure. We were just there, both DAL and NW. Whatever agreement the companies come up will have to respect our PWA, but I suspect it will also be, like our agreement with AF-KLM, balanced and eminently fair to all parties going forward. It'll be respectful of the current situation.

jtf560

Aren't JAL pilots among the best paid in the world? The way I see it, whoever gets the flying is technically "lowering the bar". If I were the chief bean counter of the new operation, I'd just expand JALways to do all the international stuff with their cheaper crews or have whichever Sky Team partner that can do the flying cheapest come in and do it with a new Sky Team paint job. Does anyone know what the plan is now for JALways? I'm not sure anyone wins from this in the long run.

GreenTailWhale

The JAL pilots are indeed some of the best paid drivers in the world. At least they were up until now. Don't know how long this will hold up in bankruptcy court. Japan is one of the only places in the world that pay local Japanese pilots more than expats. JAL is entirely Japanese national pilots. No expats at mainline. As to the discussion above, don't forget Japan still has very strict foreign ownership/control laws. Even IF the government decides on allowing investment from Skyteam, Delta will have very little control, if any at all, over JAL.

NuGuy

Heyas Sink,

I wouldn't count out AMR.

They have a fierce domestic position. Key hubs in NYC, MIA, DFW, ORD and LAX, all of which eclipse or equal ATL in O&D strength (except maybe MIA) and they have a product that is consistent and NICE.

Even their commuter operation looks better than our mish mash of operators even on their best day.

DAL talks about the "four corners", but AMR already has it +1. They have a three-pronged feed into South America, which remains the highest yielding market in the world, with a lock on two KEY O&D markets for SoAM, MIA and DFW, and DAL is still playing catchup in NYC (not to mention the termial situation).

There are two tracks that AMR can take to regain their footing. First, grab ALK and SEA. Remove one of the "corners" from DALs strategy. Second, consider spending the HUGE bucks, and try to nab UAL pacific operation.

There is opportunity for AMR out of the JAL mess, but they need to move to capitalize on it.

Nu

SOTeric

Second, consider spending the HUGE bucks, and try to nab UAL pacific operation.

Nu[/quote]

"I'm only going to say this once. Put down the pipe son."