Republic Seniority
01-13-2010, 05:35 PM
#231
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
How would this work with the "no bump no flush" policy?
RAH has a say in how these integrations go too... they are not going to allow a whole system re-bid because it would cost them the farm in training costs.
Very few Frontier pilots have and will be recalled because of the 3 new aircraft coming. Most of these vacancies were filled with VLOA's.
RAH has a say in how these integrations go too... they are not going to allow a whole system re-bid because it would cost them the farm in training costs.
Very few Frontier pilots have and will be recalled because of the 3 new aircraft coming. Most of these vacancies were filled with VLOA's.
What is VLOA's?
01-14-2010, 03:36 AM
#237
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: E170/175 CA
Posts: 334
You won't see either during class. Training was moved from the headquarters building to a generic office/warehouse building about 20 miles away. The EXCO is not in IND very much, and likely the only IBT rep you will see is someone from the hospitality committee. The hospitality committee guys are not involved in any of the subjects that you want to talk about. And given the lack of new hires over the past year and a half, the hospitality guys have pretty much not been involved in anything, nor are they real up to speed about what is going on internally at the local. Bedford has always avoided meeting the pilots, though for some reason he loves to show up to flight attendant graduations...
01-14-2010, 08:47 AM
#239
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
Like this idea of integration. Junior pilots get to upgrade and the senior guys live or die by growth of the Branded flying.
----
This post was a good start, but career expectations leave one group 'holding the bag' in this proposal - the senior FO's of Midwest and Frontier. The RAH and Lynx CA's had career expectations to fly 175's and Q-400's, respectively. The most junior FO @ Midwest or Frontier had career expectations to fly nothing smaller than a 717 or A-318 (and it can be generally assumed that, career wise, every guy @ Midwest or Frontier was a mid-level CA @ a regional prior to going to Midwest or Frontier). The above post recognized that RAH and Lynx CA's would have first dibs on Airbus and 190 CA seats as being an issue, and I just wanted to identify the reasoning under Allegheny Mohawk that is applicable.
The solution? Hard to say. Maybe go with the above proposed integration, but offer super seniority (ahead of any RAH or Lynx CA) to the former YX and F9 FO's for the purposes of bidding the left seat of aircraft larger than an E-175 only. RAH FO's expected to get the chance to bid to a large fleet of E-175 and smaller jets as most of the RAH CA's left for bigger and better airlines, and shouldn't watch as their upgrade goes to a YX or F9 FO who expected to sit in the right seat for at least 5-7 years minimum waiting for a left seat. So, make the F9 and YX FO's wait it out for the left seat of any jet (can't go to the left seat of any jet until an opening in the left seat of a EMB-175+ aircraft opens up), while the RAH and Lynx FO's don't have to wait it out, but won't be able to bid into large aircraft they never expected to see on property either. The RAH and Lynx CA's then get to either sit in the seat they're in now (all they expected to get prior to the merger), or they can go to the right seat (or even the left seat) of something larger than a 175 only if the YX and F9 FO's pass up on the opportunity first, preferring to go to the smaller equipment (E-175 and below) for whatever reason. Ultimately, the guys who benefit most are the young RAH and Lynx CA's who, if they stay and RAH/F9/YX sustains itself, will end up as the senior pilots in the company as the older YX and F9 CA's retire, never having to suffer going back to the bottom of the list as an FO at the 'bigger and better' company - be a line holding CA on the E-175 waiting for the left seat of the Airbus instead of sitting reserve as an FO on the Airbus. Of course, if you stay, the whole company could go under too. With risk comes reward. I guess everyone but the RAH guys benefit/lose some too, as they didn't expect to get access to all the bases and opportunities of this new firm, but didn't expect to potentially be based anywhere but DEN or MKE (is this a gain or a loss, depends on whether you went to your firm primarily for the base, which many did. If so, welcome to the integration party, hope you enjoy the left seat of an RJ in Indy!).
Anyway, this all makes sense to me, and seems to preserve the good start that 'Rightseat Ballast' made, while protecting the career expectations of everyone a bit better. I'm sure I screwed it up somewhere (base protection issues, for starters), so, please, feel free to improve upon it (or throw it out completely) - on an internet forum, I would expect nothing less.
In my dreams, this thread actually yields something positive and the arbitrator or union folks actually take it seriously.
---by Rightseat Ballast and Sniper.
----
This post was a good start, but career expectations leave one group 'holding the bag' in this proposal - the senior FO's of Midwest and Frontier. The RAH and Lynx CA's had career expectations to fly 175's and Q-400's, respectively. The most junior FO @ Midwest or Frontier had career expectations to fly nothing smaller than a 717 or A-318 (and it can be generally assumed that, career wise, every guy @ Midwest or Frontier was a mid-level CA @ a regional prior to going to Midwest or Frontier). The above post recognized that RAH and Lynx CA's would have first dibs on Airbus and 190 CA seats as being an issue, and I just wanted to identify the reasoning under Allegheny Mohawk that is applicable.
The solution? Hard to say. Maybe go with the above proposed integration, but offer super seniority (ahead of any RAH or Lynx CA) to the former YX and F9 FO's for the purposes of bidding the left seat of aircraft larger than an E-175 only. RAH FO's expected to get the chance to bid to a large fleet of E-175 and smaller jets as most of the RAH CA's left for bigger and better airlines, and shouldn't watch as their upgrade goes to a YX or F9 FO who expected to sit in the right seat for at least 5-7 years minimum waiting for a left seat. So, make the F9 and YX FO's wait it out for the left seat of any jet (can't go to the left seat of any jet until an opening in the left seat of a EMB-175+ aircraft opens up), while the RAH and Lynx FO's don't have to wait it out, but won't be able to bid into large aircraft they never expected to see on property either. The RAH and Lynx CA's then get to either sit in the seat they're in now (all they expected to get prior to the merger), or they can go to the right seat (or even the left seat) of something larger than a 175 only if the YX and F9 FO's pass up on the opportunity first, preferring to go to the smaller equipment (E-175 and below) for whatever reason. Ultimately, the guys who benefit most are the young RAH and Lynx CA's who, if they stay and RAH/F9/YX sustains itself, will end up as the senior pilots in the company as the older YX and F9 CA's retire, never having to suffer going back to the bottom of the list as an FO at the 'bigger and better' company - be a line holding CA on the E-175 waiting for the left seat of the Airbus instead of sitting reserve as an FO on the Airbus. Of course, if you stay, the whole company could go under too. With risk comes reward. I guess everyone but the RAH guys benefit/lose some too, as they didn't expect to get access to all the bases and opportunities of this new firm, but didn't expect to potentially be based anywhere but DEN or MKE (is this a gain or a loss, depends on whether you went to your firm primarily for the base, which many did. If so, welcome to the integration party, hope you enjoy the left seat of an RJ in Indy!).
Anyway, this all makes sense to me, and seems to preserve the good start that 'Rightseat Ballast' made, while protecting the career expectations of everyone a bit better. I'm sure I screwed it up somewhere (base protection issues, for starters), so, please, feel free to improve upon it (or throw it out completely) - on an internet forum, I would expect nothing less.
In my dreams, this thread actually yields something positive and the arbitrator or union folks actually take it seriously.
---by Rightseat Ballast and Sniper.
01-14-2010, 09:51 AM
#240
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: A320
Posts: 103
Out of curiosity, what do the RAH pilots feel would be fair?
Do you think a senior RAH pilot should be able to go straight to the left seat of an airbus?
**deleted my personal opinion, because it really doesn't matter what I think, it will never happen**
Do you think a senior RAH pilot should be able to go straight to the left seat of an airbus?
**deleted my personal opinion, because it really doesn't matter what I think, it will never happen**
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
