Republic Seniority
01-12-2010, 08:31 AM
#202
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: B-73N FO
Posts: 532
I'm not keeping track but, for the record I have not engaged in personal attacks on the RAH pilot group nor have I spoken of doing any sort of harm as a potential future employee of the "company".
My complaint is with the ceo's of these companies who become enriched on the backs of their employees and treat them like garbage while touting their ***** principles.. They are the real enemy.
It's sad to see the level of outright immaturity displayed on this board but, I do not wish to be associated with any posters who have resorted to personal attacks or unprofessional behavior.
If anything this web board has crystallized my perspective with regard to the odds of me returning to a job at Midwest or whatever you call it. It won't happen.
I'll go on observing from the outside how this works out while I continue to help some of my past co-workers to get hired at "Brand X". PM me if I can help.
To all you captains, treat your FO's with the respect they deserve. They may be the ones who will someday give you the helping hand you need. This industry is too small to act otherwise.
My complaint is with the ceo's of these companies who become enriched on the backs of their employees and treat them like garbage while touting their ***** principles.. They are the real enemy.
It's sad to see the level of outright immaturity displayed on this board but, I do not wish to be associated with any posters who have resorted to personal attacks or unprofessional behavior.
If anything this web board has crystallized my perspective with regard to the odds of me returning to a job at Midwest or whatever you call it. It won't happen.
I'll go on observing from the outside how this works out while I continue to help some of my past co-workers to get hired at "Brand X". PM me if I can help.
To all you captains, treat your FO's with the respect they deserve. They may be the ones who will someday give you the helping hand you need. This industry is too small to act otherwise.
01-12-2010, 09:23 AM
#203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 312
It was all lip service. Of course you are going to tell people what you think they want to hear when you are coming in and taking their jobs and blaming it on circumstances you say you can't control. The "merger" has turned into a lockout. The "merger" happen last July. Six months later, everything is headed to arbitration.
01-12-2010, 10:18 AM
#204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: E170/175 CA
Posts: 334
Dirty Rat-
Why is it that furloughed Frontier pilots seem to understand how integration works, and are not claiming a lockout, and are not demanding temporary bidding rights? How would you determine whether a Frontier furlough or a Midwest furlough should be trained first? There is no simple answer, so everything waits for integration results. 98% of those involved understand this. Why can't you?
I look forward to having Midwest and Frontier and Lynx pilots on property. I have benefited greatly from my time flying with US Airways J4J pilots, and I know many in our pilot group stand to become more well rounded through sharing the cockpit with pilots of different backgrounds. The J4J pilots understood waiting for seniority to be determined before taking a seat on a RAH airplane. In fact, the dozen or so who jumped early were greatly scorned by the rest of the MidAtlantic pilot group.
RAH is treating Frontier, Lynx, and Midwest pilots equally. The particular situation of not having a fleet at the moment is making all of this harder on Midwest pilots, no doubt. But you keep demanding special treatment that would benefit your pilot group alone. That will never happen. The only fair way in a 4 way integration is to settle things once and definitively, not give some temporary seniority in an arbitrary fashion, only to have to revoke it and reassign you, while in the meantime a number of RAH pilots may be needlessly and inappropriately harmed due to improper placement and seating of Midwest pilots ahead of actual seniority determination.
If the four pilot groups could come up with a mutual agreement on the order in which furloughs are recalled to upcoming vacancies prior to the completion of the entire new seniority list, then I would fully support it. But to demand that RAH give all vacancies to Midwest pilots first is selfish at best. In the end Midwest pilots may all be at the top of the new list. If so, I will fully support your rapid return to the line in the correct aircraft and seat. But until I know that you are actually being returned to work correctly, and not at the expense of another carrier's pilot, then I do not support you one bit.
And as for your silly tactics about trying to make life difficult for everyone out of spite...
The likelihood of two Midwest pilots occupying both seats in a given cockpit are slim. Be it you all hold captain, or whatever, you are likely going to have someone who will hold you accountable for your actions...someone who desires to maintain their job legitimately. If you are an f/o, then your childish games will not be tolerated in the first place. If you are captain, any erratic or vindictive behavior can be reported. And these E-jets are great tattle-tale airplanes. Your actions will be accurately documented and corroborated. And having witnessed some antics from the J4J pilots, let me assure you that the company is watching you very closely. I am certain that 90%+ of the Midwest pilots who come on line will quickly prove that they are professionals and need no extra oversight. But the bad apples will be identified. You can play "fly very safe and legal", but I guarantee you that the company can beat you at that game, too. Feel that tire is unsafe? Well maintenance found multiple defects during a bi-weekly in an aircraft you had just declared airworthy. F/O did the walk around? The FAR's say that YOU as captain are ultimately responsible. The FO gets some retraining, you get the axe. It may take a while to build the case, but they will get you if you make trouble. And trust me, the union will not come to your defense if you are identified as a trouble maker. We want to improve our company, and we will not let a loose cannon like you ruin our efforts.
Grow up, act in a manner that reflects your age and experience, and fight for making RAH as good as what you once had. Pick your fights wisely. If you think the company has screwed you so far, just wait and see what they can do if they don't like you.
Midwest was not a necessary acquisition for RAH. RAH could have had a fine foray into branded ops with just Frontier. E-190s could have been added there, or at Lynx. I am not saying that your airline brings no value, but I am saying that there was nothing about your company that would make you enemies that need to be destroyed. Midwest pilots are in such a bad position only because Bedford did not want the 717's. You know the 717 had limits to its capabilites. The 190 has many of the same limits, but for less operating cost, pilots aside. Right now the 190 also has cheaper pilot costs, but that is not an assured advantage after our next contract. Frontier has demonstrated continued profit with their pay, and that argument will help us show that Midwest 190 pilots can also be paid well and leave a profit for the company. YOU ARE NOT BEING VICTIMIZED, though you are victims of circumstance. Integration will solve that, and that process is in motion. Settle down like the rest of us, and see what your union leaders can do for you. I support the process, and I will support the outcome.
Why is it that furloughed Frontier pilots seem to understand how integration works, and are not claiming a lockout, and are not demanding temporary bidding rights? How would you determine whether a Frontier furlough or a Midwest furlough should be trained first? There is no simple answer, so everything waits for integration results. 98% of those involved understand this. Why can't you?
I look forward to having Midwest and Frontier and Lynx pilots on property. I have benefited greatly from my time flying with US Airways J4J pilots, and I know many in our pilot group stand to become more well rounded through sharing the cockpit with pilots of different backgrounds. The J4J pilots understood waiting for seniority to be determined before taking a seat on a RAH airplane. In fact, the dozen or so who jumped early were greatly scorned by the rest of the MidAtlantic pilot group.
RAH is treating Frontier, Lynx, and Midwest pilots equally. The particular situation of not having a fleet at the moment is making all of this harder on Midwest pilots, no doubt. But you keep demanding special treatment that would benefit your pilot group alone. That will never happen. The only fair way in a 4 way integration is to settle things once and definitively, not give some temporary seniority in an arbitrary fashion, only to have to revoke it and reassign you, while in the meantime a number of RAH pilots may be needlessly and inappropriately harmed due to improper placement and seating of Midwest pilots ahead of actual seniority determination.
If the four pilot groups could come up with a mutual agreement on the order in which furloughs are recalled to upcoming vacancies prior to the completion of the entire new seniority list, then I would fully support it. But to demand that RAH give all vacancies to Midwest pilots first is selfish at best. In the end Midwest pilots may all be at the top of the new list. If so, I will fully support your rapid return to the line in the correct aircraft and seat. But until I know that you are actually being returned to work correctly, and not at the expense of another carrier's pilot, then I do not support you one bit.
And as for your silly tactics about trying to make life difficult for everyone out of spite...
The likelihood of two Midwest pilots occupying both seats in a given cockpit are slim. Be it you all hold captain, or whatever, you are likely going to have someone who will hold you accountable for your actions...someone who desires to maintain their job legitimately. If you are an f/o, then your childish games will not be tolerated in the first place. If you are captain, any erratic or vindictive behavior can be reported. And these E-jets are great tattle-tale airplanes. Your actions will be accurately documented and corroborated. And having witnessed some antics from the J4J pilots, let me assure you that the company is watching you very closely. I am certain that 90%+ of the Midwest pilots who come on line will quickly prove that they are professionals and need no extra oversight. But the bad apples will be identified. You can play "fly very safe and legal", but I guarantee you that the company can beat you at that game, too. Feel that tire is unsafe? Well maintenance found multiple defects during a bi-weekly in an aircraft you had just declared airworthy. F/O did the walk around? The FAR's say that YOU as captain are ultimately responsible. The FO gets some retraining, you get the axe. It may take a while to build the case, but they will get you if you make trouble. And trust me, the union will not come to your defense if you are identified as a trouble maker. We want to improve our company, and we will not let a loose cannon like you ruin our efforts.
Grow up, act in a manner that reflects your age and experience, and fight for making RAH as good as what you once had. Pick your fights wisely. If you think the company has screwed you so far, just wait and see what they can do if they don't like you.
Midwest was not a necessary acquisition for RAH. RAH could have had a fine foray into branded ops with just Frontier. E-190s could have been added there, or at Lynx. I am not saying that your airline brings no value, but I am saying that there was nothing about your company that would make you enemies that need to be destroyed. Midwest pilots are in such a bad position only because Bedford did not want the 717's. You know the 717 had limits to its capabilites. The 190 has many of the same limits, but for less operating cost, pilots aside. Right now the 190 also has cheaper pilot costs, but that is not an assured advantage after our next contract. Frontier has demonstrated continued profit with their pay, and that argument will help us show that Midwest 190 pilots can also be paid well and leave a profit for the company. YOU ARE NOT BEING VICTIMIZED, though you are victims of circumstance. Integration will solve that, and that process is in motion. Settle down like the rest of us, and see what your union leaders can do for you. I support the process, and I will support the outcome.
01-12-2010, 10:32 AM
#205
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
This is a joke, right?
"Why is it that furloughed Frontier pilots seem to understand how integration works, and are not claiming a lockout, and are not demanding temporary bidding rights?"
answer: Frontier pilots still have their jobs!!!
"Why is it that furloughed Frontier pilots seem to understand how integration works, and are not claiming a lockout, and are not demanding temporary bidding rights?"
answer: Frontier pilots still have their jobs!!!
01-12-2010, 10:48 AM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 306
[quote=Rightseat Ballast;742691]Dirty Rat-
Why is it that furloughed Frontier pilots seem to understand how integration works, and are not claiming a lockout, and are not demanding temporary bidding rights?
I'll add to what MD80 said:
Furloughed F9 pilots are currently being recalled into the airbus. Most likely to fly in the MKE domicile as Midwest. Frankly it will not hurt as much if the Midwest name/paint whatever does disappear. It just puts a sour taste in the MEH peoples mouth to watch from the sidelines.
Why is it that furloughed Frontier pilots seem to understand how integration works, and are not claiming a lockout, and are not demanding temporary bidding rights?
I'll add to what MD80 said:
Furloughed F9 pilots are currently being recalled into the airbus. Most likely to fly in the MKE domicile as Midwest. Frankly it will not hurt as much if the Midwest name/paint whatever does disappear. It just puts a sour taste in the MEH peoples mouth to watch from the sidelines.
01-12-2010, 11:11 AM
#207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: E170/175 CA
Posts: 334
Actually, it is not a joke. Frontier furloughs do not have their jobs. Read a little more closely. Some will get their jobs back, though their claim to the Airbus right seat or left seat (recall or upgrade) are temporary and may change upon the completion of integration. They are bound to their certificate's operation. So are you. They are bound by the same integration timetable you are. Most frontier furloughs will not fly until after integration, same as you.
01-12-2010, 11:35 AM
#208
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 312
Dirty Rat-
Why is it that furloughed Frontier pilots seem to understand how integration works, and are not claiming a lockout, and are not demanding temporary bidding rights? How would you determine whether a Frontier furlough or a Midwest furlough should be trained first? There is no simple answer, so everything waits for integration results. 98% of those involved understand this. Why can't you?
I look forward to having Midwest and Frontier and Lynx pilots on property. I have benefited greatly from my time flying with US Airways J4J pilots, and I know many in our pilot group stand to become more well rounded through sharing the cockpit with pilots of different backgrounds. The J4J pilots understood waiting for seniority to be determined before taking a seat on a RAH airplane. In fact, the dozen or so who jumped early were greatly scorned by the rest of the MidAtlantic pilot group.
RAH is treating Frontier, Lynx, and Midwest pilots equally. The particular situation of not having a fleet at the moment is making all of this harder on Midwest pilots, no doubt. But you keep demanding special treatment that would benefit your pilot group alone. That will never happen. The only fair way in a 4 way integration is to settle things once and definitively, not give some temporary seniority in an arbitrary fashion, only to have to revoke it and reassign you, while in the meantime a number of RAH pilots may be needlessly and inappropriately harmed due to improper placement and seating of Midwest pilots ahead of actual seniority determination.
If the four pilot groups could come up with a mutual agreement on the order in which furloughs are recalled to upcoming vacancies prior to the completion of the entire new seniority list, then I would fully support it. But to demand that RAH give all vacancies to Midwest pilots first is selfish at best. In the end Midwest pilots may all be at the top of the new list. If so, I will fully support your rapid return to the line in the correct aircraft and seat. But until I know that you are actually being returned to work correctly, and not at the expense of another carrier's pilot, then I do not support you one bit.
And as for your silly tactics about trying to make life difficult for everyone out of spite...
The likelihood of two Midwest pilots occupying both seats in a given cockpit are slim. Be it you all hold captain, or whatever, you are likely going to have someone who will hold you accountable for your actions...someone who desires to maintain their job legitimately. If you are an f/o, then your childish games will not be tolerated in the first place. If you are captain, any erratic or vindictive behavior can be reported. And these E-jets are great tattle-tale airplanes. Your actions will be accurately documented and corroborated. And having witnessed some antics from the J4J pilots, let me assure you that the company is watching you very closely. I am certain that 90%+ of the Midwest pilots who come on line will quickly prove that they are professionals and need no extra oversight. But the bad apples will be identified. You can play "fly very safe and legal", but I guarantee you that the company can beat you at that game, too. Feel that tire is unsafe? Well maintenance found multiple defects during a bi-weekly in an aircraft you had just declared airworthy. F/O did the walk around? The FAR's say that YOU as captain are ultimately responsible. The FO gets some retraining, you get the axe. It may take a while to build the case, but they will get you if you make trouble. And trust me, the union will not come to your defense if you are identified as a trouble maker. We want to improve our company, and we will not let a loose cannon like you ruin our efforts.
Grow up, act in a manner that reflects your age and experience, and fight for making RAH as good as what you once had. Pick your fights wisely. If you think the company has screwed you so far, just wait and see what they can do if they don't like you.
Midwest was not a necessary acquisition for RAH. RAH could have had a fine foray into branded ops with just Frontier. E-190s could have been added there, or at Lynx. I am not saying that your airline brings no value, but I am saying that there was nothing about your company that would make you enemies that need to be destroyed. Midwest pilots are in such a bad position only because Bedford did not want the 717's. You know the 717 had limits to its capabilites. The 190 has many of the same limits, but for less operating cost, pilots aside. Right now the 190 also has cheaper pilot costs, but that is not an assured advantage after our next contract. Frontier has demonstrated continued profit with their pay, and that argument will help us show that Midwest 190 pilots can also be paid well and leave a profit for the company. YOU ARE NOT BEING VICTIMIZED, though you are victims of circumstance. Integration will solve that, and that process is in motion. Settle down like the rest of us, and see what your union leaders can do for you. I support the process, and I will support the outcome.
Why is it that furloughed Frontier pilots seem to understand how integration works, and are not claiming a lockout, and are not demanding temporary bidding rights? How would you determine whether a Frontier furlough or a Midwest furlough should be trained first? There is no simple answer, so everything waits for integration results. 98% of those involved understand this. Why can't you?
I look forward to having Midwest and Frontier and Lynx pilots on property. I have benefited greatly from my time flying with US Airways J4J pilots, and I know many in our pilot group stand to become more well rounded through sharing the cockpit with pilots of different backgrounds. The J4J pilots understood waiting for seniority to be determined before taking a seat on a RAH airplane. In fact, the dozen or so who jumped early were greatly scorned by the rest of the MidAtlantic pilot group.
RAH is treating Frontier, Lynx, and Midwest pilots equally. The particular situation of not having a fleet at the moment is making all of this harder on Midwest pilots, no doubt. But you keep demanding special treatment that would benefit your pilot group alone. That will never happen. The only fair way in a 4 way integration is to settle things once and definitively, not give some temporary seniority in an arbitrary fashion, only to have to revoke it and reassign you, while in the meantime a number of RAH pilots may be needlessly and inappropriately harmed due to improper placement and seating of Midwest pilots ahead of actual seniority determination.
If the four pilot groups could come up with a mutual agreement on the order in which furloughs are recalled to upcoming vacancies prior to the completion of the entire new seniority list, then I would fully support it. But to demand that RAH give all vacancies to Midwest pilots first is selfish at best. In the end Midwest pilots may all be at the top of the new list. If so, I will fully support your rapid return to the line in the correct aircraft and seat. But until I know that you are actually being returned to work correctly, and not at the expense of another carrier's pilot, then I do not support you one bit.
And as for your silly tactics about trying to make life difficult for everyone out of spite...
The likelihood of two Midwest pilots occupying both seats in a given cockpit are slim. Be it you all hold captain, or whatever, you are likely going to have someone who will hold you accountable for your actions...someone who desires to maintain their job legitimately. If you are an f/o, then your childish games will not be tolerated in the first place. If you are captain, any erratic or vindictive behavior can be reported. And these E-jets are great tattle-tale airplanes. Your actions will be accurately documented and corroborated. And having witnessed some antics from the J4J pilots, let me assure you that the company is watching you very closely. I am certain that 90%+ of the Midwest pilots who come on line will quickly prove that they are professionals and need no extra oversight. But the bad apples will be identified. You can play "fly very safe and legal", but I guarantee you that the company can beat you at that game, too. Feel that tire is unsafe? Well maintenance found multiple defects during a bi-weekly in an aircraft you had just declared airworthy. F/O did the walk around? The FAR's say that YOU as captain are ultimately responsible. The FO gets some retraining, you get the axe. It may take a while to build the case, but they will get you if you make trouble. And trust me, the union will not come to your defense if you are identified as a trouble maker. We want to improve our company, and we will not let a loose cannon like you ruin our efforts.
Grow up, act in a manner that reflects your age and experience, and fight for making RAH as good as what you once had. Pick your fights wisely. If you think the company has screwed you so far, just wait and see what they can do if they don't like you.
Midwest was not a necessary acquisition for RAH. RAH could have had a fine foray into branded ops with just Frontier. E-190s could have been added there, or at Lynx. I am not saying that your airline brings no value, but I am saying that there was nothing about your company that would make you enemies that need to be destroyed. Midwest pilots are in such a bad position only because Bedford did not want the 717's. You know the 717 had limits to its capabilites. The 190 has many of the same limits, but for less operating cost, pilots aside. Right now the 190 also has cheaper pilot costs, but that is not an assured advantage after our next contract. Frontier has demonstrated continued profit with their pay, and that argument will help us show that Midwest 190 pilots can also be paid well and leave a profit for the company. YOU ARE NOT BEING VICTIMIZED, though you are victims of circumstance. Integration will solve that, and that process is in motion. Settle down like the rest of us, and see what your union leaders can do for you. I support the process, and I will support the outcome.
Next Caller Please!!
01-12-2010, 11:49 AM
#209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 179
RAH is treating Frontier, Lynx, and Midwest pilots equally. The particular situation of not having a fleet at the moment is making all of this harder on Midwest pilots, no doubt. But you keep demanding special treatment that would benefit your pilot group alone. That will never happen. The only fair way in a 4 way integration is to settle things once and definitively, not give some temporary seniority in an arbitrary fashion, only to have to revoke it and reassign you, while in the meantime a number of RAH pilots may be needlessly and inappropriately harmed due to improper placement and seating of Midwest pilots ahead of actual seniority determination.
The Midwest pilots are not Frontier pilots or Lynx pilots. This is a situation that will be a nightmare for years to come. I was told there are still open grievances from when NWA and Republic merged in mid 80s!
01-12-2010, 11:52 AM
#210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 306
Help me out here
Actually, it is not a joke. Frontier furloughs do not have their jobs. Read a little more closely. Some will get their jobs back, though their claim to the Airbus right seat or left seat (recall or upgrade) are temporary and may change upon the completion of integration. They are bound to their certificate's operation. So are you. They are bound by the same integration timetable you are. Most frontier furloughs will not fly until after integration, same as you.
What are you saying?
Furloughed F9 guys have been receiving recall notices. I know someone who has bypassed, for now.
Bus deliveries(3?) scheduled for this spring, hence recalls??)
N205,6,7FR
Opening MKE F9 domicile in April.
Please be more specific.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
