SoCalGuy

As said earlier in the thread.....fate, luck, ect.....how every you choose to look at it, no one was killed in the two AA incidents, that's something positive/good news to take from this.

In your post, you ask how bad it has to get?? As far as Colgan's Mgt is concerned, a plane load of pax (all falalities) still does not seem to phase them.

Not to drift too far from the topic, but found it interesting in Colgan's Mgt stance on "Fatigue Calls" shortly following their BUF crash. Citing this accident, there was a significant 'body-count' with fatigue playing a contributing factor. It is rediculous that a US based airline (Major or Regional) 'seems' more concerned about policing "fatigue calls" than taking a pilot's word that he/she is 'butt-arse' tired and can not perform his/her's job safely due to being fatigued while on duty. HOW LONG is the US gov. going to let this type of practice go on in our industry???

Got the following from the Regional Forum concerning Colgan's 'new' Fatigue Call Policy......

Beginning immediately, fatigue calls will not be accepted:

1. If the crewmember has had a period of at least 12 hours rest prior to the start of the duty day.*
2. If the crewmember is returning from days off.
3. For future or downline flights. That is, a crewmember cannot declare “I’m going to be fatigued on my next flight”, or “I’m calling in fatigue for tomorrow”.

*Mitigating circumstances that prevent a rest period from being fully utilized will be considered when determining whether a fatigue call is acceptable.

...

The Safety Department will ultimately determine whether a fatigue call is acceptable or not. However, a fatigue call that is not accepted will be referred to the Chief Pilot or Inflight Base Manager for disposition.

...

Any further blatant abuse of the fatigue option will be addressed as a disciplinary action, and fatigue resulting from an improper use of rest periods or personal time off duty will be treated as missed trips. This policy begins immediately.

KC10 FATboy

I read Dawson's research. It wasn't until after 17 hours did the test subjects exhibit the same cognitive decline equil to a 0.05% BAC.

He only used 40 test subjects and we don't know what kind of test subjects he used. Perhaps testing a group of pilots would increase or decrease the rate of cognitive delcine?

So, I'll still stand on comments that, being awake 12 hours isn't equivalent to being drunk. Because, if it were, we'd have a heck of a lot of bad accidents and slurred PAs out there.

syd111

socal guy jmo but if you commute I would be careful as to how much government involvement you want in regards to the fatigue issue.

Dirtdiver

The time was "hours awake" so unless you sleep on the hotel van until drop off, or in the car while someone drives you to the airport, you're awake longer than you're "on duty".

SoCalGuy

Syd111.....Check you V-File.

dojetdriver

Or if you're on the classic shift change/body clock swap mid trip.

You know, 2 consecutive 5-6 am shows, then a late AM/early PM show the next day. Despite your best efforts, eyes open and wide awake at 5-6 am and it'll be 2300-2400 before you duty off making for a lengthy awake period.

eaglefly

A bad stretch of coincidence and almost certainly no thread of some "problem" at AA. The FAA bartenders have mastered the 'knee jerk' overaction on the rocks with the 'media notification' chaser.

They did it with Comair/Colgan when they went tear-assing around the regionals during the fall on the assumption ALL regionals were the same and in need of "evaluation".

The FAA needs to evaluate ITSELF to truly solve many of these industry problems..............unfortunately, that's far too painful and thus, more bent metal and body parts are in our futures.

shfo

Pretty tough qualifications to be one of those FAA safety inspectors:

Not more than 2 flying accidents during the last 5 years in which the applicant‘s pilot error was involved;

Aviation Safety Inspectors


I also heard that the POI at Colgan failed training on the Q400.