Tankerhead

Looks like a glamour shot of a female grim reaper.

JDFlyer

So if I understand things correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, but . . . . you non-rev on SWA. They misdirect your gate checked bag, and it turns out that it is thought to be lost or some such thing. In other words, completely SWA's fault. I am with you and agree with you up to this point, the distinction between and non-rev and pax bag seems silly for lost bags that are lost by SWA's fault.

You sue SWA. SWA does NOT settle with you because by their records, they did not cause the loss of your bag. You win in court, $500.

The Phoenix Police Department later contacts you informing you that your bag is found with many other pax's bags in this alleged criminal's house because she stole your bag from the Phoenix airport.

So . . . SWA did NOT have anything to do with losing your bag or in anyway be involved in your bag being stolen by a Phoenix criminal. Yes, it was incorrectly gate checked, but for the FACT that is was stolen, SWA would have been able to get your bag back to you.

Before you go back to your cave, please tell me you are going to give SWA their $500 back, apologize profusely for suing them and slandering their business reputation for something that they are NOT responsible for - specifically, poor security at Skyharbor and the criminal actions of a baggage thief.

I_Love_Lamp

The Phoenix police actually called me before the trial. This was mentioned in the case and the judge still found in my favor.

The problem in your logic is that you're saying that SWA has nothing to do with losing my bag. When they took my bag from me, they accepted custodianship until the bag was back in my hands. By putting it in the baggage claim with no positive bag match, they were negligent.

This was exacerbated by the fact that 1) PHX used to have bag match, that was paid for and administered by the airlines (not the city), but it was cut for "cost cutting measures" in 2005. 2) A month before my bag was stolen, a larger bag theft ring was uncovered, doing the very same thing the woman who stole my bag did. The airline knew it was a problem and refused to change their policies to stop it.

For both of these reasons, in the eyes of the law, it is the fault of SWA.

To make an analogy, if you came to my house and I made you leave your shoes on the sidewalk, then someone took your shoes, it'd be just as much my fault as that of the thief. Sure, if the thief wasn't there it wouldn't be an issue, but if the proper precautions were made (move your shoes inside, for example) you wouldn't have had your shoes stolen either.

Make sense?

grumman

Got news for you Love Chief - no airline will pay you for lost non-rev bag.

Please don't fly SWA anymore.

JDFlyer

I understand what you are saying. And I do understand why the Judge ruled the way he did, but I don't agree with the ruling. I am not trying to pick a fight, I promise, this will very likely be my last post on this subject.

But to use your analogy of me coming to your house for dinner, just a few points. Under the dinner scenario, I would be inviting my self to your house for a FREE dinner, just as you invited yourself to fly for FREE on a SWA flight. As a home owner you rightly have some rules for your house - one may be that no guest may wear shoes. BUT if I agree to these rules, and leave my shoes on the sidewalk VOLUNTARILY, then in my opinion, I assume the risk of loss for my shoes. I don't have to eat at your house for free, I don't have to agree to take my shoes off. I can go try to eat for free somewhere else where I can leave my shoes on.

It truly sucks that your bag was STOLEN, not lost. I truly wish you never had to go through this ordeal. SWA is an airline. The moved you and your bag safely from point A to point B, for FREE. They are not an insurance company, being paid to insure against the criminal actions of third parties. You do have insurance right? Home owners? Renters? Just my opinion, but I would have pursued an insurance claim instead of suing SWA.

Again, in my opinion, suing SWA on this issue, was very short sighted. Many years ago when I was a practicing attorney transitioning to a pilot career, a client of mine, a Continental pilot, gave me some great, great advice. Part of his advice was this: remember the professional aviation community is a very, very small community. I think what he said exactly was "The student you are instructing today, may be your Chief Pilot tomorrow."

People remember. Corporations like SWA are made up of people. Your $500 today, probably cost you millions in potential lifetime earnings if you ever thought you wanted to fly for SWA. Anticipating that you will post back that you never wanted to fly for SWA, or that SWA is not a company you are interested in working for - that is a totally fair response. SWA is not for everybody. The vast majority of professional pilots will not make a career at SWA. But closing doors on career options is exactly that, forever closing choices you may want for yourself and your family in the future.

Unfortunately I think you just slammed this door shut . . . . all for a measly $500. For you sake, in the long run, I hope it was worth it.

Boogie Nights

I have been part of an airline family for all of my 44 years. My mom was a FA for 41 years for AMR. I have to shift blame for this problem to the entire industry in its efforts and airports efforts to cut cost; notice doing it while charging fees for checking bags that should be free.

It is interesting (ironic I suppose) and completely irrelevant this occurred on a SWA flight where they don't charge bag fees.

When I was a kid traveling if your bag went to baggage claim you had to have a claim check to get out the door. There were guards checking the claim checks.

Would the SWA guys be upset if it was another airline rather than SWA who were the subject of this law suit?

If I read this right he flew on a Zed fare which I believe you need to pay for.

So is he to have no rights? Yes the thief is ultimately responsible, but so too should be the airports/airlines. The industry has cuts service so much in an effort to compete that there is no one willing to man up. Even for a few bucks. What is the cost to SWA or any airline to pay for recovered bags vs the total bottom line. Compare that to damaged reputation, who loses? answer: everyone. If it costs so much hire a guy to check the bag tags.

Why wouldn't SWA want a guy who is going to stand on priciple? I'd hire him.

Lets face it many of us would love to work for SWA, but stats are if we are lucky enought to get an interview maybe 25% will get and offer.

When I interviewed there was a guy there for his 4th interview and he did not get hired. He said he would be back for number 5 if offered. I too would try if given a chance.

Bottom line I'd would be really P.O'd if my bag was lost and no one at the airline would help me. Heck I help load bags pull bags and strollers when the rampers need it just out of respect. I expect the airline to respect my stuff too.

Note: While I may have got to trial to prove a point I would not have accepted the money.

On a side note"
Let me say lastly I saw a new SWA commercial (very funny) of the SWA rampers flashing (what is obiviously a Airtran 717, blurred tail). Their flashed bodies say "Bags fly free."

SWA guys I do not think you should be upset. I think it does speak well of you that you tried to help this guy.

Regards to you all
Boogie

ratsnrip

I know of airlines that have paid for lost non-rev bags. And within the last 2 years, my bag was replaced at no charge to me, for damage done while non-reving.

I_Love_Lamp

Not to pick a fight either. Just a mature polite debate, so don't think I'm trying to make any personal attacks towards you. I have nothing but respect

Well, okay. First off, to clarify, I was not jumpseating, I was riding on a ZED. My ticket cost $29 plus airport taxes. In addition, I wasn't given an opportunity to put my bag under a seat and was told "there's no overhead space." I politely asked for a chance to put it under my seat or put it behind the pedestal in the cockpit (where it has usually been put historically when I was jumpseating), and she complained that "we're gonna be late. Check your bag or get off my plane". Very uncharacteristic for a SWA employee, I was pretty shocked by that.

$38*

A few notes. First off, SWA carries insurance for this very purpose. They guarantee compensation if they lose the bag of all of their passengers. This comes from an insurance policy that they carry themselves. They take out claims daily on it, the money only comes from the airline itself in the form of insurance premiums. My bag was worth decidedly less than their stated maximum, and the reimbursement would've been such an insignificant amount (relative to their total revenue generated from the flight I was on, counting all pax) that it would've been worth it for them to simply follow their own contract of carriage. However, they decided that while I, the passenger, must comply with the contract of carriage, they do not. Secondly, it was only 3 days before trial (2 months after I filed the paperwork for the case) that I found out that my bag had been stolen. As far as I knew, up until that point, it was in some other station in their network (they had mislabeled my bag to SLC not PHX, so it was reasonable that it had gone elsewhere.)

On top of all of this, I tried the conventional avenue for almost three months. I called the bag office of 10 stations trying to find my bag. I filed a report with the PHX station and the central bag office. I called daily to see if any bags matching my description had been put into their lost bag system. Finally, after 3 weeks, I received a letter from the head of Customer Service - Baggage that said in no uncertain terms: "We're no longer looking for your bag. It's lost, and we don't owe you diddly. Tough luck." When I called the woman who wrote the letter to try and seek clarification (Where in the CoC was this stipulation?) she refused to call back. When I called the PR dept, they refused to call back. When I called legal, they refused to call back. I was taken back, because I've always heard of how good SWA's employee treatment and passenger customer service was.

Things like this have been said for ages in the industry, but it's said to keep junior people in line. The industry has always been "Sacrifice for the greater good" while the senior members eat their young. When I was furloughed, I was told by everyone "We'll never take a paycut, so you'll come back to full pay" and no more than 1 month after furlough, the paycut passed with an 80% vote. Part of the reason I got out of the airline pilot business.

Thousands of people. People who work so deep in the cubicle zone they have no contact with anyone of any official pilot contacts.

This industry has taken away my quality of life, my paycheck, my job, my dignity. I'm not going to let it take my rollaboard too. You're correct in my assumption that SWA is not my cup of tea. It's a fine company and this whole thing isn't about some personal grudge with SWA. They're great people. This story could very well be about any other airline, but I just happened to be going from BHM to PHX. That's SWA territory. Had it been ATL maybe it would've been DL or US. I'm sure the story would have been the exact same.

You'll likely say "good" but I have made the career change. The diminishing returns of the airlines just weren't worth it for me. For me, I'm making twice as much as I was making as a regional pilot (and I'm not making a lot of money now by any means) with ten times the QoL and never having to work a holiday again in my life. I wouldn't trade that for anything. Even a job at a major.

Fantastically said, only thing about the money is that your answer might be different if you were making sub $30k a year and you just lost half of your wardrobe (or, in my case, half your wardrobe and your college diploma that you were bringing back from your parents house)

I_Love_Lamp

One just did. Enjoy your LBB overnight.

/I can play FlightInfo troll too

SOTeric

Until SWA (or any airline for that manner) pays for their own security for bags which they assume possesion of until they are back in the owners hands, they will be held liable.