Oh, daddy Delta do tell...
12-02-2009, 03:41 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,900
12-02-2009, 03:46 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
There are no lessons on capacity being given in the New York market, by any airline: only a competition for market share. Luckily, New York does not an industry make. What we're doing there (your airline, mine, and JetBlue) might be stimulating demand, up to a point, but ultimately we're all diluting yields, for the purpose of "winning". There is a silver lining, however: our transaction with UsAirways serves to give us a stronger position there (and UsAirways a stronger position in DCA). Along with your transaction with AirTran, these are actually examples of relatively good discipline, and of increasing market share by design (by reducing competition). At least, they don't seem to be designed around the naive idea of capturing market share through massive over-supply, and simply clicking our heels three times with the hope our competitiors would go away.
But when I said should be giving lessons with respect to New York, I was referring to your monicker, to identify your airline, in terms of general capacity control. I wasn't saying that either of our airline is innocent of increasing capacity in New York. So I'm certainly not trying to give you lessons.
I was merely addressing your accusation of hypocrisy, and pointing to the lack of logic in your tirade, or the absence of any connection between your assertion and the statement actually made by our CFO, in light of the "addition" of two routes.
Last edited by Sink r8; 12-02-2009 at 04:14 PM.
12-02-2009, 07:53 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 225
Which carriers compete with the great one? United led capacity reduction in both timing and magnitude. But of course that was poo pooed.
Not a flame, but I am ducking. I think honest discourse would serve our cause better than the cheerleading and turf wars.
This is the same record for the last 30 years, oh the names and faces change but little else. Don't feel bad, we can capitulate to "live another day."
Carpe Diem
Last edited by REAL Pilot; 12-02-2009 at 09:19 PM. Reason: clarification
12-03-2009, 03:45 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Which carriers compete with the great one? United led capacity reduction in both timing and magnitude. But of course that was poo pooed.
Not a flame, but I am ducking. I think honest discourse would serve our cause better than the cheerleading and turf wars.
This is the same record for the last 30 years, oh the names and faces change but little else. Don't feel bad, we can capitulate to "live another day."
Carpe Diem
Not a flame, but I am ducking. I think honest discourse would serve our cause better than the cheerleading and turf wars.
This is the same record for the last 30 years, oh the names and faces change but little else. Don't feel bad, we can capitulate to "live another day."
Carpe Diem
As was said earlier, anything any CEO says to encourage everyone else to show restarint is... amusing. So I'll stipulate to the fact we're not in a position to give lessons if the others will show the same courtesy.
We could try to get to the bottom of this, with the discourse you suggest and determine a victor in the "cut wars", I'm sure, but do we really want to? The bottom line is that there is a very precarious balance right now between supply and demand, and we all hope that we as an industry will be prudent more than greedy.
12-03-2009, 06:12 PM
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: A330
Posts: 91
It's absolutely a case of Delta of saying "DO AS WE SAY NOT AS WE DO!!!"
HYPOCRITES because on the same day they state all this above, they follow it with:
Delta Adding New Flights to Hawaii
Detroit, San Diego gain nonstop routes to Honolulu
ATLANTA, Dec. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL - News) today announced it will introduce nonstop flights connecting Honolulu with Detroit and San Diego, beginning in June. The new service marks the first time Delta has served Honolulu from San Diego and reinstates nonstop service from Detroit that had been discontinued in 2004.
"The expanded customer base created through Delta's merger with Northwest allows us to bring new service to markets that previously did not have the demand to sustain nonstop flights," said Bob Cortelyou, Delta's senior vice president - Network Planning. "Detroit to Honolulu nonstop service provides greater access to Hawaii for customers in Michigan, the eastern U.S. and Canada, while our new route between San Diego and Honolulu will expand Delta's extensive flight schedules between the West Coast and Hawaii."
As a leading carrier to the Hawaiian Islands, Delta currently offers passengers 106 weekly flights between Hawaii and nine worldwide destinations. Delta operates its largest gateway to Hawaii at Los Angeles International Airport with an average of five daily round-trip departures to four Hawaiian destinations - Honolulu, Maui, Lihue and Kona. In addition to new local nonstop service beginning in June 2010, Detroit and San Diego customers will continue to have convenient connecting access to additional Hawaiian destinations via Los Angeles. Delta offers five daily round-trip flights between Detroit and Los Angeles and will add five daily round-trip flights between San Diego and Los Angeles, effective Feb. 11, 2010.
HYPOCRITES because on the same day they state all this above, they follow it with:
Delta Adding New Flights to Hawaii
Detroit, San Diego gain nonstop routes to Honolulu
ATLANTA, Dec. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL - News) today announced it will introduce nonstop flights connecting Honolulu with Detroit and San Diego, beginning in June. The new service marks the first time Delta has served Honolulu from San Diego and reinstates nonstop service from Detroit that had been discontinued in 2004.
"The expanded customer base created through Delta's merger with Northwest allows us to bring new service to markets that previously did not have the demand to sustain nonstop flights," said Bob Cortelyou, Delta's senior vice president - Network Planning. "Detroit to Honolulu nonstop service provides greater access to Hawaii for customers in Michigan, the eastern U.S. and Canada, while our new route between San Diego and Honolulu will expand Delta's extensive flight schedules between the West Coast and Hawaii."
As a leading carrier to the Hawaiian Islands, Delta currently offers passengers 106 weekly flights between Hawaii and nine worldwide destinations. Delta operates its largest gateway to Hawaii at Los Angeles International Airport with an average of five daily round-trip departures to four Hawaiian destinations - Honolulu, Maui, Lihue and Kona. In addition to new local nonstop service beginning in June 2010, Detroit and San Diego customers will continue to have convenient connecting access to additional Hawaiian destinations via Los Angeles. Delta offers five daily round-trip flights between Detroit and Los Angeles and will add five daily round-trip flights between San Diego and Los Angeles, effective Feb. 11, 2010.
12-04-2009, 07:04 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
OK, I wasn't planning on "going there", but I did read the November numbers. Something struck me as interesting, in light of this thread...
1) Looks like I owe Southwest an apology. Most disciplined this month: DAL and LUV.
2) Least disciplined... CAL and LCC.
How bizarre...
ATLANTA, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL -
News) today reported traffic results for November 2009. System traffic in November 2009, including both Delta and Northwest operations, decreased 7.1 percent compared to November 2008 on an 8.4 percent decrease in capacity. Load factor increased 1.1 points to 79.6 percent.
CHICAGO, Dec. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ --United Airlines today reported its preliminary consolidated traffic results for November 2009. The company reported a November consolidated passenger load factor of 80.2 percent. Total consolidated revenue passenger miles (RPMs) increased in November by 1.8 percent on a consolidated capacity decrease of 2.7 percent in available seat miles (ASMs) compared with the same period in 2008.
FORT WORTH, Texas, Dec. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- American Airlines reported a November load factor of 79.6 percent, an increase of 3.0 points versus the same period last year. Traffic decreased 0.5 percent and capacity decreased 4.2 percent year over year.
TEMPE, Ariz.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC - News) today announced November and year-to-date 2009 traffic results. Mainline revenue passenger miles (RPMs) for the month were 4.2 billion, down 1.8 percent versus November 2008. Capacity was 5.4 billion available seat miles (ASMs), down 1.3 percent versus November 2008. Passenger load factor for the month of November was 77.3 percent, down 0.4 points versus November 2008.
HOUSTON, Dec. 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) today reported a November consolidated (mainline plus regional) load factor of 80.5 percent, 3.2 points above the November 2008 consolidated load factor, and a record mainline load factor of 81.1 percent, 3.3 points above the November 2008 mainline load factor. [...]In November 2009, Continental flew 6.8 billion consolidated revenue passenger miles (RPMs) and 8.4 billion consolidated available seat miles (ASMs), resulting in a consolidated traffic increase of 2.9 percent and a capacity decrease of 1.2 percent as compared to November 2008. In November 2009, Continental flew 6.0 billion mainline RPMs and 7.4 billion mainline ASMs, resulting in a mainline traffic increase of 2.7 percent and a mainline capacity decrease of 1.4 percent as compared to November 2008. [I don't know why they put both sets of different numbers in the same paragraph]
DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV:$10.17,00$0.66,006.94%) announced today that the Company flew 5.9 billion revenue passenger miles (RPMs) in November 2009, an 11.7 percent increase from the 5.3 billion RPMs flown in November 2008. Available seat miles (ASMs) decreased 7.7 percent to 7.7 billion from the November 2008 level of 8.3 billion. The load factor for the month was 76.5 percent, compared to 63.2 percent for the same period last year. For November 2009, passenger revenue per ASM is estimated to have increased in the 12 percent range as compared to November 2008.
1) Looks like I owe Southwest an apology. Most disciplined this month: DAL and LUV.
2) Least disciplined... CAL and LCC.
How bizarre...
ATLANTA, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL -
News) today reported traffic results for November 2009. System traffic in November 2009, including both Delta and Northwest operations, decreased 7.1 percent compared to November 2008 on an 8.4 percent decrease in capacity. Load factor increased 1.1 points to 79.6 percent.
CHICAGO, Dec. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ --United Airlines today reported its preliminary consolidated traffic results for November 2009. The company reported a November consolidated passenger load factor of 80.2 percent. Total consolidated revenue passenger miles (RPMs) increased in November by 1.8 percent on a consolidated capacity decrease of 2.7 percent in available seat miles (ASMs) compared with the same period in 2008.
FORT WORTH, Texas, Dec. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- American Airlines reported a November load factor of 79.6 percent, an increase of 3.0 points versus the same period last year. Traffic decreased 0.5 percent and capacity decreased 4.2 percent year over year.
TEMPE, Ariz.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC - News) today announced November and year-to-date 2009 traffic results. Mainline revenue passenger miles (RPMs) for the month were 4.2 billion, down 1.8 percent versus November 2008. Capacity was 5.4 billion available seat miles (ASMs), down 1.3 percent versus November 2008. Passenger load factor for the month of November was 77.3 percent, down 0.4 points versus November 2008.
HOUSTON, Dec. 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) today reported a November consolidated (mainline plus regional) load factor of 80.5 percent, 3.2 points above the November 2008 consolidated load factor, and a record mainline load factor of 81.1 percent, 3.3 points above the November 2008 mainline load factor. [...]In November 2009, Continental flew 6.8 billion consolidated revenue passenger miles (RPMs) and 8.4 billion consolidated available seat miles (ASMs), resulting in a consolidated traffic increase of 2.9 percent and a capacity decrease of 1.2 percent as compared to November 2008. In November 2009, Continental flew 6.0 billion mainline RPMs and 7.4 billion mainline ASMs, resulting in a mainline traffic increase of 2.7 percent and a mainline capacity decrease of 1.4 percent as compared to November 2008. [I don't know why they put both sets of different numbers in the same paragraph]
DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV:$10.17,00$0.66,006.94%) announced today that the Company flew 5.9 billion revenue passenger miles (RPMs) in November 2009, an 11.7 percent increase from the 5.3 billion RPMs flown in November 2008. Available seat miles (ASMs) decreased 7.7 percent to 7.7 billion from the November 2008 level of 8.3 billion. The load factor for the month was 76.5 percent, compared to 63.2 percent for the same period last year. For November 2009, passenger revenue per ASM is estimated to have increased in the 12 percent range as compared to November 2008.
12-04-2009, 05:07 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
I was wrong again: this is truly ironic.
(drum roll)
Continental to add Maui, HNL flights - Pacific Business News (Honolulu):
I think this thread is done.
Sincerely,
Daddy.
(drum roll)
Continental to add Maui, HNL flights - Pacific Business News (Honolulu):
I think this thread is done.
Sincerely,
Daddy.
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