Allegiant
03-07-2010, 07:55 AM
#221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
As I suspected, you have no idea how the system works, and you're just rambling nonsense.
Here's how the grievance process really works:
The Association files a grievance by submitting it to the Chief Pilot. The CP has a limited amount of time in which to issue his decision, but most contract are about 1-2 weeks. This is called a "Step 1" hearing. Next, the grievance moves up to the next person in line, usually the VP-Flt Ops or the Director of Labor Relations. This is the "Step 2" hearing. This person also has a limited time in which to render a decision, but usually 2-4 weeks.
If the grievance is denied by the company at both the Step 1 and Step 2 hearings, then the case goes to System Board. There is also a time limit on this, but contracts vary widely. Anything from a few weeks to a few months. The System Board will either uphold the grievance, deny the grievance, or deadlock the grievance. If the grievance is deadlocked, it goes on to arbitration. Again, there are time limits involved here. Most contracts specify that an arbitrator must be selected within a couple of weeks. At that point, the only time factor is when the arbitrator is available, which can be anywhere from a few weeks to a month or two. He'll usually render a decision after hearing the case within 60-90 days.
As you can see, the process has deadlines at every stage. As long as your reps aren't sitting on their asses doing nothing, then the process will move along and cases will be processed in a timely fashion. The company can't stall as you claim unless you let them.
Here's how the grievance process really works:
The Association files a grievance by submitting it to the Chief Pilot. The CP has a limited amount of time in which to issue his decision, but most contract are about 1-2 weeks. This is called a "Step 1" hearing. Next, the grievance moves up to the next person in line, usually the VP-Flt Ops or the Director of Labor Relations. This is the "Step 2" hearing. This person also has a limited time in which to render a decision, but usually 2-4 weeks.
If the grievance is denied by the company at both the Step 1 and Step 2 hearings, then the case goes to System Board. There is also a time limit on this, but contracts vary widely. Anything from a few weeks to a few months. The System Board will either uphold the grievance, deny the grievance, or deadlock the grievance. If the grievance is deadlocked, it goes on to arbitration. Again, there are time limits involved here. Most contracts specify that an arbitrator must be selected within a couple of weeks. At that point, the only time factor is when the arbitrator is available, which can be anywhere from a few weeks to a month or two. He'll usually render a decision after hearing the case within 60-90 days.
As you can see, the process has deadlines at every stage. As long as your reps aren't sitting on their asses doing nothing, then the process will move along and cases will be processed in a timely fashion. The company can't stall as you claim unless you let them.
Thanks for proving my point though. We can sit here and talk about it all we want and each one of us tries to show we are right, just like the company does during a grievance. Thanks for validating in my mind why unions are a complete waste of time and money.
03-07-2010, 07:33 PM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 460
03-08-2010, 01:37 PM
#224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
Actually, the real problem is that your "real case scenarios" have no basis in reality, and they were dreamed up in your anti-union mind. If you had any understanding of the grievance process at all, you could have easily avoided making yourself look like a fool. Better luck next time.
Yeah, but sometimes it's fun to irritate the pig.
Yeah, but sometimes it's fun to irritate the pig.
03-08-2010, 04:10 PM
#225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
I was at an ALPA airline and there was a grievance filed, for furloughing pilots out of seniority order. The grievance was settled in the unions favor about a year later.
Some guys got furloughed about 3 months out of order!
cliff
NBO
I was at an ALPA airline and there was a grievance filed, for furloughing pilots out of seniority order. The grievance was settled in the unions favor about a year later.
Some guys got furloughed about 3 months out of order!
cliff
NBO
03-08-2010, 08:49 PM
#226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
The clueless bunch like PCL actually believe things like this dont happen. I guess some people living in lala land will never get it.
03-08-2010, 09:11 PM
#227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
03-09-2010, 09:58 AM
#228
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 460
As far as the time frame, one year to resolve a complicated grievance is pretty good. You tried dealing with things in civil courts lately? It takes many years for resolution. The grievance process is swift by comparison.
03-09-2010, 12:16 PM
#229
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I think you missed the point. They won the grievance! Pilots at a non-union airline would have been screwed, with no recourse.
As far as the time frame, one year to resolve a complicated grievance is pretty good. You tried dealing with things in civil courts lately? It takes many years for resolution. The grievance process is swift by comparison.
As far as the time frame, one year to resolve a complicated grievance is pretty good. You tried dealing with things in civil courts lately? It takes many years for resolution. The grievance process is swift by comparison.
We don't always agree on ideaology of ALPA, but this is absolutely spot on.
03-09-2010, 03:02 PM
#230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
My point was that there should have been no grievance. If you have a contract, which comes from a union, the company should follow it, and if they don't, they should IMMEDIATELY be punished/sanctioned.
Our union/contract/grievance system is broken. The mgmt has WAY to much power. In many airlines, like mine, the company just does whatever it wants, and then year(s) later end up paying a penalty that costs pennies on the dollar for how much money they save.
I think for an intentional violation of the contract like they did the mgmt should be immediately fired and/or go to prison.
cliff
NBO
My point was that there should have been no grievance. If you have a contract, which comes from a union, the company should follow it, and if they don't, they should IMMEDIATELY be punished/sanctioned.
Our union/contract/grievance system is broken. The mgmt has WAY to much power. In many airlines, like mine, the company just does whatever it wants, and then year(s) later end up paying a penalty that costs pennies on the dollar for how much money they save.
I think for an intentional violation of the contract like they did the mgmt should be immediately fired and/or go to prison.
cliff
NBO
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