Raul Duke

Furloughees welcome

ALPA-Hating furloughees: very welcome

sadly

PCL_128

You obviously have no understanding of the grievance process. Collective bargaining agreements contain grievance processes that lay out deadlines for the processing of grievances. The company can't "drag their feet," they have to meet the deadlines. Now, if you elect bad reps, then things can certainly get held up on your end, but that's not a problem with the grievance process, that's a problem with electing incompetents.

RCD73

Interesting stuff.

Quick question. What is the average time at your carrier that a grievance is heard and resolved ?

If you you can't answer the question without blaming your prior union; How about the time since grievances were filed under ALPA ?

PCL_128

Most issues are now resolved before ever becoming grievances. The Grievance Committee deals directly with the Chief Pilot and the VP-Flt Ops before filing a grievance and is usually able to get it resolved for the pilot without filing a grievance.

For the cases that are actually grieved, we have an extensive backlog, because our former union, the NPA, didn't process any arbitrations for several years. Cases are now being arbitrated at a rate of about 2-3 month, though.

Herkulesdrvr

I have a very strong understanding of the union process having worked with shop stewards in previous jobs and yes companies can and do drag their feet. Unions are a lost way of doing business in the 21st century and primarily the reason you see declining memberships. Roughly 82% of working Americans are not represented by organized labor and there is certainly a good reason for it. Unions made sense 50 years ago, but not in todays workforce.

PCL_128

You've done nothing to demonstrate your case. Simply stating that it's so doesn't make it true. How exactly do companies drag their feet? Prove your case. The facts will not support you. A grievance process that is being actively managed by good reps will work just fine. A grievance process that the reps allow to fall into disfunction is a different story, but again, that's a problem with the reps, not with the system.

Herkulesdrvr

Actually, fact is that only 18% of the U.S. workforce has said yes to organized labor and numbers continue to decline. If it were so great then why are not more people involved?

How do companies drag their feet? I will tell you how:

case 1 - Shop steward files grievance, company says one thing, steward says another. The two sit down and company says we will investigate. Three weeks later facts are forgotten and company says we did our investigation and you are wrong Mr. shop steward there is no grievance as far as we are concerned. Steward says but there is a case, company says no there isn't. The system cant force the company to do anything, nor can the reps, case closed.

case 2 - Shop steward files grievance, company says one thing, steward says another. The two sit down and talk, rep or company dont have everything there because someone is on vacation, sick, you get the picture. After much debate nothing happens cause the "system" that you refer to as so great doesnt allow a "meeting of the minds" to occur. Once again, process fails, time wasted, case closed.

There are your examples...and for what its worth I saw both of these things happen hundreds of times, not a few, but hundreds of times. End of story, the system is flawed and always will be flawed. Vote no.

PCL_128

As I suspected, you have no idea how the system works, and you're just rambling nonsense.

Here's how the grievance process really works:

The Association files a grievance by submitting it to the Chief Pilot. The CP has a limited amount of time in which to issue his decision, but most contract are about 1-2 weeks. This is called a "Step 1" hearing. Next, the grievance moves up to the next person in line, usually the VP-Flt Ops or the Director of Labor Relations. This is the "Step 2" hearing. This person also has a limited time in which to render a decision, but usually 2-4 weeks.

If the grievance is denied by the company at both the Step 1 and Step 2 hearings, then the case goes to System Board. There is also a time limit on this, but contracts vary widely. Anything from a few weeks to a few months. The System Board will either uphold the grievance, deny the grievance, or deadlock the grievance. If the grievance is deadlocked, it goes on to arbitration. Again, there are time limits involved here. Most contracts specify that an arbitrator must be selected within a couple of weeks. At that point, the only time factor is when the arbitrator is available, which can be anywhere from a few weeks to a month or two. He'll usually render a decision after hearing the case within 60-90 days.

As you can see, the process has deadlines at every stage. As long as your reps aren't sitting on their asses doing nothing, then the process will move along and cases will be processed in a timely fashion. The company can't stall as you claim unless you let them.

NERD

Sooo.... Since you hold unions in such low regard, if there were a strike would you cross? I think I know your answer.

fireman0174

I would suggest that one reason unions are not the force they once were is that today a very high percentage of the workers do not stay with a company very long, that is they are quick to move elsewhere at a rate significantly higher than years ago, hence little/no allegiance to a union.

JMHO.