CLMP

While I agree that it may be difficult to achieve the same high profit margins that we have in the past, I find it hard to believe that people want to turn down a pay raise just because they want a union. You want to be stuck with the same embarrassing pay for the next 3,4, or even 5 years while we negotiate a contract? The union drive was instrumental in getting this new agreement, nobody is denying that. The OC did (is doing) a great job. I went to the ALPA show, and it was the same rhetoric as I've always heard. A union with dwindling finances isn't going to give two sh%ts about a 300 pilot airline.

MD80driver2day

I think BigTime=Dix-bag on FI=Leader of the AAY OC

BigTime

Nope, not the same person. I don't know about Dix Bag, he could be the leader of the OC, I really have no idea. I don't know who you are either. One thing I do know is that chperplt is a head negotiator for the union busting effort, and he went out for beers with the CEO after negotiations.

BigTime

Lets not be short sighted, you don't have to turn down the pay raises, we can have both. Management didn't have to offer pay raises after the union drive began, they could have given them long before. In fact they broke US labor law by doing so. ALPA has the option to withdraw, but they aren't and they are NOT planning to sue, contrary to what some are telling everybody.
It doesn't always take 3-4 years to get a contract. It can be done in less. The reason it takes longer with a union is because they make everything legally binding. It all goes through the NMB and is recorded, edited, and vetted by a legal council.
Even with the pay raises, we can still vote in the union. Do you really think management did this because they care about us? This "TA" is clearly for one reason alone, union busting. It was not offered because management wants to reward us for our hard work. Nor was it offered because they recognize our expertise or professionalism.
It is the same management that changes our work rules without permission every single year. It is the same management that gave us pay raises last year, then cost us all money by withdrawing open time. It is the same management who line their pockets with hundreds of millions in stock and bonuses yet offer us no retirement fund, the lowest 401K match in the industry, mediocre medical/dental/vision, no sick pay, no paid vacations, and the lowest pay in the industry for the past decade.
If they really wanted to have a happy pilot group and keep the union out, they should have offered us a full TA with improvements across the board. We are more profitable than another similar "blue" airline that voted down an in-house union last year and received a very good TA.
And these are the same people that you want to control your contract and your career rather than a union made up of our own elected pilots? Why wouldn't you want a CBA that is a legal contact recognized by the NMB? Why would you want to risk it with a questionable contract based on questionable tort law and absolutely no legal support?

johnso29

For the success that Allegiant is having, those rates are very sad.

MD80driver2day

What should our pay rates be?

johnso29

Delta bankruptcy rates are still higher then the new Allegiant rates on the FO side. I'd start there, because a 12 yr DC9 FO makes $99 an hour and the DC9's hold 100-125 pax.

INXS

Thanks for your expert opinion. Very constructive, too. It sounds like you've really crunched the numbers for us.

johnso29

No number crunching required. It's black & white. Delta FO's make more on a BK contract.

If you'd like a comparison closer to Allegiant, take a look at SWA rates.

MD80driver2day

You're not going to get off that easy...

Delta in BK is still a major airline, as is SW. Allegiant is a small airline and relatively young.

If we're going to compare ourselves, shouldn't we do it with like companies... Low cost carriers?

So... How much should we get paid?