aa73

CAL pilots... 757 question re: BCN-EWR
Hi CAL pilots,

AA just switched to 757ERs on JFK-BCN on 11/18 from the 763.... So far, AA151 (BCN-JFK) has diverted 3 (three!) days in a row for fuel. Once to Gander, twice to Bangor. Question to you guys, I know you've been using the 757 to BCN for a few years now... about how many times do youse guys divert westbound to EWR?

Everyone knew this would happen, we figured the geniuses at HDQ figured it was cheaper to divert a bunch of times than keep a 763 on that route. Meanwhile our pilots are raking in a bunch of extra $$$ with each divert. Ssshhh!

Posted on FI.com as well.

Thanks,
73

SoCalGuy

Flew a lot of BCN trips (EWR-BCN) over the summer in 2008 for 4 straight months.

During that summer, one month I had 4 BCN trips on my line. We diverted on 3 out of 4 of them doing the BCN-EWR leg. Two of the stops were into Gander, and the third was into Stewart about 20 miles North of EWR. Over that summer, it was a very common problem using the B757 on the BCN run.

Some of the CA's who flew that trip a lot would have the Fuel Truck out there pumping every last drop on while having the X-Feeds open to squeeze as much as they could into the tanks.....the long taxi out did not help the gas situation either.

One problem I saw many times was when we would go BCN-EWR, we were filed on a random route. Santa Maria would often keep us 2000-3000 feet below our "filed" altitude till reaching 30W, or sometimes 40W....this obviously threw the flt plan out the window on already an 'optimistic flt plan'. There were some guys that would declare 'min fuel' when checking in with BOS center, became somewhat common at times.

With all the deverts that I was on out of BCN (or sometimes TXL-Berlin) on the B757, when things looked we needed to stop, we coordinated around 30-40W with dispatch, and when we swung into Gander, they were great on turning us quick....down to a science. Did it once in the dead of winter for gas and de-ice and they spun us in 33 mins on to off.

I think Boeing has stretch this aircraft about as far as it's going to go, even with winglets.

Good luck and consider the stop "a little pay raise"!!

SC

aa73

Thanks SC! Haven't flown it yet (other than on the 763) but did CDG last month on the 757, even that was stretching it,

73

SoCalGuy

It's always interesting to pick up an inbound aircraft that just returned from BCN and see how much fuel they blocked in with in the log-book.

Sometimes when you see the numbers during the 'tight fuel season', it gives the true meaning to 'stretching it'.

Fly safe enjoy the ride!

SC

IrishTiger

Wow that is absolutely so bizarre. I'm surprised they continued to use these airplanes after all this. I guess if you can pop in and out in 45 mins it doesn't really hurt THAT much, but still!

Just out of curiosity, on the flight plan, how accurate was the fuel burn section? Did you guys know before you left there was a good probability of a diversion?

And why on gods green earth would someone divert to Stewart (20 miles north of EWR). You couldn't squeeze out another 20 miles?

I've only flown DUB-EWR on CAL, and it was on a 757. i thought it was great, as I had my own row of BusinessFirst, so I was oblivious to everything else after about 30 minutes!

Tinpusher007

I would say that the loads on EWR-BCN-EWR don't justify a 764 or 777. Furthermore CAL doesn't have a large fleet of 762ER's so those birds are probably used on much longer routes. All that's left is the 752's.

SoCalGuy

That's about the tall-n-short of it Tin.

I have seen the B762 from time to time on the BCN run. When it happens, normally it's during the holidays, or cruise season w/ heavy cargo loads.

Depending on the time of the year, as stated earlier, your already stretching the plane's capability when it comes to fuel on the BCN-EWR run. You'd be amazed how fast your holding fuel goes 'bye-bye' when doing turns/holding over HELON Int (located about 1-2 miles West of Stewart on the arrival to EWR) at 7,000ft due to "TRAFFIC VOLUME" into NYC airspace.

After you burn through your add, conting, wrap-around & holding gas....Bingo Fuel is Bingo Fuel and sometimes it happens in the hold North of EWR....thus Hello Stewart

Good to hear you enjoyed your DUB flight, glad it was a good experience on CAL.

newarkblows

On kind of a side note: In EWR there were 9 hardstanded 757's down by terminal A. They have been there for the past 3-4 days. That is a lot of downtime for those planes. Anybody know why?

SoCalGuy

Are you sure they are the same planes that have been there for the last 3-4 days?? Often times when the Trans-Atlantic bank comes in, it is very common for the super-tugs to take them off their arrival gates (especially from Term B) and drop them off in the "Ball-Park" so that MX can do routine stuff and pre-ETOPS work on them before they go out in that evening's Int'l push. It is very common to have the Ball-Park looking like a 'used car lot' during the day time ops.

If they happen to be the same aircraft there for the last 3-4 days, you have some damn good eyes! I suppose CAL MX is in the process of doing "very through checks" on them. That's just a 'guess', the MX side of the house is in contract negotiations as we speak.

aa73

We fill up our 763s quite a bit during the summer to BCN. Wintertime, not so much, hence the change to the 757.

Like SoCal says, the fuel #s look fine on paper when leaving westbound. Throw in a lower than requested altitude on the NATs, delaying vectors approaching NY, a hold or two, and you get the picture. 9 times out of 10 these flights are dispatched with a re-release, meaning that the flight is only released to a certain point, and upon arrival at that point, based on actual fuel the crew and dispatch determine whether they can get "re-released" to destination.

The 757 is truly not a trans-atlantic bird, end of story.