Pilots Need to Refocus on Professionalism...
11-04-2009, 05:55 PM
#1
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Pilots Need to Refocus on Professionalism...
Has Babbitt been reading the stuff on this website?
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FAA chief says plane that overshot Minneapolis shows pilots need to refocus on professionalism
(AP) — The Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot Minneapolis are part of a larger problem — eroding professionalism among commercial airline pilots, Federal Aviation Administration Administrator Randy Babbitt said Wednesday.
Babbitt told an international aviation club on Wednesday that aviation is facing an "extreme need to refocus on professionalism." He cited two examples: Northwest Flight 188, which overshot Minneapolis by 150 miles last month, and a regional airliner that crashed earlier this year near Buffalo, N.Y., killing 50 people.
The two Northwest pilots — Capt. Timothy Cheney, 53, of Gig Harbor, Wash., and First Officer, Richard Cole, 54, of Salem, Ore. — told the National Transportation Safety Board they lost track of time and place while working on crew scheduling on their laptops. Air traffic controllers and the airline's dispatchers were unable to communicate with the plane for 91 minutes, raising national security concerns.
In the Buffalo crash, testimony at an NTSB hearing in May indicated the pilots made a series of critical errors just before the plane experienced an aerodynamic stall and plunged to the ground.
A former airline pilot and pilots union president, Babbitt said that in both cases the pilots forgot their first job was to focus on flying the plane.
"I think that this is a sign of a much bigger problem," Babbott said. "I can't regulate professionalism. With everything we know about human factors, there are still those who just ignore the common sense rules of safety."
He contrasted the two incidents with US Airways Flight 1547, whose captain — Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger — made a precision landing in the Hudson after a collision with a flock of geese killed power in both engines just after takeoff from LaGuardia Airport in New York. All 155 people on board were saved, and "Sully" was celebrated as an American hero.
"There was not one second of less than total concentration," Babbitt said. "That crew was the epitome of professionalism and a textbook case of focus by everyone, including the controllers."
In contrast, "the Minneapolis overshoot is a very sad example," Babbitt said in his first public comments on the incident. "As a pilot, it doesn't matter much whether they were using their laptops or re-enacting the Lincoln-Douglas debates — what they did was wrong and they lost total situational awareness. ... They knew a lot better and they were trained a lot better."
The FAA has revoked the pilots' licenses, but they can file an appeal to the NTSB. The pilots told the safety board they didn't have any previous incidents or violations. Cheney was hired by Northwest in 1985 and had about 20,000 hours of flying time, about half of it in the Airbus A320, the type of plane involved in the incident. Cole had about 11,000 hours of flight time, including 5,000 hours in the Airbus A320.
Even before the Northwest incident, Babbitt had been stressing a need to strengthen professionalism among airline pilots, particularly pilots at smaller, regional airlines who often are paid less and have less experience than pilots at major airlines. He has urged veteran pilots to mentor less experienced pilots.
Members of Congress have expressed similar concerns. The House approved a bill last month to toughen requirements for pilot training and experience.
Sen. Bryon Dorgan, chairman of the Senate aviation subcommittee, said at a hearing last week that he is troubled that the Minneapolis and Buffalo incidents may point to a widespread problem.
"Is this just an aberration?" Dorgan, D-N.D., asked. "The circumstances where we have seen tragedy and the circumstances where we have seen error suggest to me that we need to know a lot more about what's going on in cockpits."
...............................................
FAA chief says plane that overshot Minneapolis shows pilots need to refocus on professionalism
(AP) — The Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot Minneapolis are part of a larger problem — eroding professionalism among commercial airline pilots, Federal Aviation Administration Administrator Randy Babbitt said Wednesday.
Babbitt told an international aviation club on Wednesday that aviation is facing an "extreme need to refocus on professionalism." He cited two examples: Northwest Flight 188, which overshot Minneapolis by 150 miles last month, and a regional airliner that crashed earlier this year near Buffalo, N.Y., killing 50 people.
The two Northwest pilots — Capt. Timothy Cheney, 53, of Gig Harbor, Wash., and First Officer, Richard Cole, 54, of Salem, Ore. — told the National Transportation Safety Board they lost track of time and place while working on crew scheduling on their laptops. Air traffic controllers and the airline's dispatchers were unable to communicate with the plane for 91 minutes, raising national security concerns.
In the Buffalo crash, testimony at an NTSB hearing in May indicated the pilots made a series of critical errors just before the plane experienced an aerodynamic stall and plunged to the ground.
A former airline pilot and pilots union president, Babbitt said that in both cases the pilots forgot their first job was to focus on flying the plane.
"I think that this is a sign of a much bigger problem," Babbott said. "I can't regulate professionalism. With everything we know about human factors, there are still those who just ignore the common sense rules of safety."
He contrasted the two incidents with US Airways Flight 1547, whose captain — Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger — made a precision landing in the Hudson after a collision with a flock of geese killed power in both engines just after takeoff from LaGuardia Airport in New York. All 155 people on board were saved, and "Sully" was celebrated as an American hero.
"There was not one second of less than total concentration," Babbitt said. "That crew was the epitome of professionalism and a textbook case of focus by everyone, including the controllers."
In contrast, "the Minneapolis overshoot is a very sad example," Babbitt said in his first public comments on the incident. "As a pilot, it doesn't matter much whether they were using their laptops or re-enacting the Lincoln-Douglas debates — what they did was wrong and they lost total situational awareness. ... They knew a lot better and they were trained a lot better."
The FAA has revoked the pilots' licenses, but they can file an appeal to the NTSB. The pilots told the safety board they didn't have any previous incidents or violations. Cheney was hired by Northwest in 1985 and had about 20,000 hours of flying time, about half of it in the Airbus A320, the type of plane involved in the incident. Cole had about 11,000 hours of flight time, including 5,000 hours in the Airbus A320.
Even before the Northwest incident, Babbitt had been stressing a need to strengthen professionalism among airline pilots, particularly pilots at smaller, regional airlines who often are paid less and have less experience than pilots at major airlines. He has urged veteran pilots to mentor less experienced pilots.
Members of Congress have expressed similar concerns. The House approved a bill last month to toughen requirements for pilot training and experience.
Sen. Bryon Dorgan, chairman of the Senate aviation subcommittee, said at a hearing last week that he is troubled that the Minneapolis and Buffalo incidents may point to a widespread problem.
"Is this just an aberration?" Dorgan, D-N.D., asked. "The circumstances where we have seen tragedy and the circumstances where we have seen error suggest to me that we need to know a lot more about what's going on in cockpits."
11-04-2009, 06:38 PM
#3
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"With everything we know about human factors, there are still those who just ignore the common sense rules of safety." Babbitt
Like the FAA hasn't ignored the NTSB's study of fatigue issues.....the pot is calling the kettle black
Like the FAA hasn't ignored the NTSB's study of fatigue issues.....the pot is calling the kettle black
11-04-2009, 06:51 PM
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"Professionalism is as professionalism does." I've been flying "professionally" for 28 years. In that time, I've seen an increasing lack of "professionalism" by our politicians and union leaders. I've never doubted the professionalism of the guys and girls I fly with...I, however, question daily the professionalism of our politicians and union leaders.
11-04-2009, 06:57 PM
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This is a great link to an interview with Sully, and the state of the industry.. A great 30 min worth of listening.
WNYC media player
WNYC media player
11-05-2009, 02:59 AM
#6
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"Professionalism is as professionalism does." I've been flying "professionally" for 28 years. In that time, I've seen an increasing lack of "professionalism" by our politicians and union leaders. I've never doubted the professionalism of the guys and girls I fly with...I, however, question daily the professionalism of our politicians and union leaders.
11-05-2009, 03:23 AM
#7
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See that is where the problem lies. Accountability, Morals in the way you manage, and plain old common sense.
My favorite MBA or JD course is Business/Legal Ethics. It is really what has been lost in America. The golden rule no longer applies in the way we treat our employees or the way the government treats its citizens. If we got back to basics, people would have no issue being accountable for actions the took. Today it is all about making sure the poo sticks on someone else. (With good cause I might add)
Pilots are professionals to a T, but we are also human. The fact that there have not been more "incidents" and "accidents" is truly astounding. See how well the rest of corporate America would perform with a 52% pay cut, and loss of retirement. My wife's company gave a 10% pay cut across the board for three months and you should have seen the mutiny. They got it all back in six weeks and they are considered "White Collar" professionals. We as pilots have taken it time and time again. Again, what do you expect?
We are still professionals, but it is getting increasingly harder to shut out the external stressors with less money, no career advancement, and no light at the end of the tunnel. There are going to be isolated incidents. That is the ugly truth. Add to that we as pilots are starting to accept things from our peers we would not have even five years ago. If we want to stop that slide, we need to fix it from within.
As Sully and Skiles have stated, it starts with wearing your uniform correctly. It shows personal respect for you and what you do. Until guys are willing to see that, we are where we are.
Rant over.
My favorite MBA or JD course is Business/Legal Ethics. It is really what has been lost in America. The golden rule no longer applies in the way we treat our employees or the way the government treats its citizens. If we got back to basics, people would have no issue being accountable for actions the took. Today it is all about making sure the poo sticks on someone else. (With good cause I might add)
Pilots are professionals to a T, but we are also human. The fact that there have not been more "incidents" and "accidents" is truly astounding. See how well the rest of corporate America would perform with a 52% pay cut, and loss of retirement. My wife's company gave a 10% pay cut across the board for three months and you should have seen the mutiny. They got it all back in six weeks and they are considered "White Collar" professionals. We as pilots have taken it time and time again. Again, what do you expect?
We are still professionals, but it is getting increasingly harder to shut out the external stressors with less money, no career advancement, and no light at the end of the tunnel. There are going to be isolated incidents. That is the ugly truth. Add to that we as pilots are starting to accept things from our peers we would not have even five years ago. If we want to stop that slide, we need to fix it from within.
As Sully and Skiles have stated, it starts with wearing your uniform correctly. It shows personal respect for you and what you do. Until guys are willing to see that, we are where we are.
Rant over.
11-05-2009, 04:05 AM
#8
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I dont find myself agreeing with the above poster very often but he is spot on. Personally I never like the uniform regulations... I suppose that came from years of military flying in very comfortable flight suits... but the fact of the matter is... if the company requires a uniform to be worn a specific way then WEAR it that way.... as for the ipods and backpacks... I dont have a real problem with those.
11-05-2009, 04:22 AM
#9
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Probably not.
Randy is a quick study. If you are going to be in a political realm, be political. Make an issue even if there isn't necessarily proof there is an issue.
The crew, as I understand, executed their stall recovery the way THEY WERE TAUGHT.
"There was not one second of less than total concentration," Babbitt said. "That crew was the epitome of professionalism and a textbook case of focus by everyone, including the controllers."
Actually Sully chose to ignore company recommendations and he flew while the F/O ran the checklist. Good decision no doubt however it is not 'textbook'.
The airline industry is a reflection of this country.
Oh, that is a brilliant observation by the Chairman of the aviation committee. The problem is Dorgan's comment is not an aberration for members of congress.
(AP) — The Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot Minneapolis are part of a larger problem — eroding professionalism among commercial airline pilots, Federal Aviation Administration Administrator Randy Babbitt said Wednesday.
In the Buffalo crash, testimony at an NTSB hearing in May indicated the pilots made a series of critical errors just before the plane experienced an aerodynamic stall and plunged to the ground.
"There was not one second of less than total concentration," Babbitt said. "That crew was the epitome of professionalism and a textbook case of focus by everyone, including the controllers."
Even before the Northwest incident, Babbitt had been stressing a need to strengthen professionalism among airline pilots, particularly pilots at smaller, regional airlines who often are paid less and have less experience than pilots at major airlines.
"Is this just an aberration?" Dorgan, D-N.D., asked. "The circumstances where we have seen tragedy and the circumstances where we have seen error suggest to me that we need to know a lot more about what's going on in cockpits."
11-05-2009, 04:52 AM
#10
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Position: B777 Capt
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Or the MEC's that lose an election and spend their lame duck session burning ALPA dollars and setting negotiations back by recalling the negotiating cmmte.
This is all happening at my carrier. The current MEC Chairman is recalling the negotiating team he had been using for the past two years, just before his term ends in January. The reason he cites is a failed TA the neg. cmmte. gave us during his tenure. Of course he does not mention that he ENDORSED the same TA that failed and that he is using to oust the cmmte. Of course this is all taking place during Section 6.
The outgoing chairman is a chump and has shown again and again he does not care about the pilot group. It is all about his own power and control and now that he was ousted he is throwing a tantrum. If he had an ounce of common sense he would not have been voted out but he had the uncanny ability to make every step a misstep.
Look at the unions and you can see as much greed and lack of reality as the managements they bash. USAPA was founded on greed and ALPA has written the book on trip drops over holidays and weekends. The problem I often see is the Union guys often see themselves as a type of management and it doesn't take long for them to let it go to their head.
L
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