Air Tran and Skywest agreement.
11-04-2009, 03:44 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Outsourcing depends on which side you are on. An AirTran pilot will say any flight flown by another airline that could generate revenue for AirTran is outsourcing. A regional pilot may have a definition of of a one for one flight replacement, or even less with the argument that a fifty seater will generate revenue on routes that a 717 won't. If you don't want AirTran from expanding a codeshare type agreement, then why does it fall on the AirTran pilots to put limits? The way the press announcements reads is that this could drag down the revenue of SkyWest if things go bad. If you think this is a bad idea for SkyWest, then that is your living management is gambling with. If you want limits placed because you think it is wrong for AirTran management to replace AirTran flights with SkyWest service, then that is a whole different debate. You'll always find heated ideas on both sides on the fence for that argument.
My question is.....who approached who?
I'm thinking SKW saw an opportunity to turn a profit on these routes into the MKE market. When SKW looked for an airline to feed they knew that Midwest (yeah) and SWA were not options so they approached AirTran about no-risk feed.
Again, who approached who? I think it was SKW since we're the industry leader in regional at-risk agreements. Also keep in mind this is SKW Branded lift on many routes AirTran doesn’t offer.
11-04-2009, 05:34 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Bus
Posts: 109
Yes, Air Wisconsin flew 50 seaters as AirTran jetconnect a few yers ago. Didn't last very long. This flying will be branded flying as SkyWest Airlines with an agreement with AirTran, almost like a codeshare.
Good Luck to SkyWest. Branded flying usually doesn't work well, especially with 50 seaters, but SkyWest might be able to pull this off.
Good Luck to SkyWest. Branded flying usually doesn't work well, especially with 50 seaters, but SkyWest might be able to pull this off.
lets hope not
11-04-2009, 05:55 PM
#23
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Is SkyWest going to start up a reservations system and be able to sell tickets on AirTran flights? Also, if SkyWest is "running" the operation as has been said, what stops them from putting CRJ-900's on the route with 90 seats in them? It's no longer a scope issue, it's a codeshare issue.
It looks to me like they will be able to use money from Delta and United to start up a branded operation that will possibly compete with them. Delta needs to give SkyWest and Republic the boot and do DCI flying with wholly owned carriers so we don't fund our competition.
It looks to me like they will be able to use money from Delta and United to start up a branded operation that will possibly compete with them. Delta needs to give SkyWest and Republic the boot and do DCI flying with wholly owned carriers so we don't fund our competition.
11-04-2009, 06:38 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 179
I see your point.
My question is.....who approached who?
I'm thinking SKW saw an opportunity to turn a profit on these routes into the MKE market. When SKW looked for an airline to feed they knew that Midwest (yeah) and SWA were not options so they approached AirTran about no-risk feed.
Again, who approached who? I think it was SKW since we're the industry leader in regional at-risk agreements. Also keep in mind this is SKW Branded lift on many routes AirTran doesn’t offer.
My question is.....who approached who?
I'm thinking SKW saw an opportunity to turn a profit on these routes into the MKE market. When SKW looked for an airline to feed they knew that Midwest (yeah) and SWA were not options so they approached AirTran about no-risk feed.
Again, who approached who? I think it was SKW since we're the industry leader in regional at-risk agreements. Also keep in mind this is SKW Branded lift on many routes AirTran doesn’t offer.
11-04-2009, 08:07 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 460
The ATN MEC's response:
Fellow Pilots,
AirTran has just announced an agreement with SkyWest for CRJ feeder service into Milwaukee. Under the terms of the deal, SkyWest will initially operate five CRJ-200 aircraft–in SkyWest livery–between Pittsburgh (PIT), St. Louis (STL), Canton/Akron (CAK), Indianapolis (IND), Des Moines (DSM), Omaha (OMA) and Milwaukee (MKE). Any additional service resulting from this agreement is not yet known.
We are concerned by our management’s move to shift flying to another carrier, even as growth at mainline AirTran has stagnated for nearly two years. This affects all of us, as pilot career progression could be slowed by such outsourcing.
Furthermore, it’s unclear how the utilization of RJs in 2010 would be any more successful or profitable than it was to use them in 2003, when the company ended AirTran Jet-Connect. What is abundantly clear, unfortunately, is that our contract allows management great latitude to give your job to other airlines, including non-union SkyWest.
We believe today’s announcement is an affront to AirTran pilots, as well as all AirTran employees, who have worked so hard to build this airline, only to potentially have their jobs outsourced. The name AirTran reflects the quality service to which pilots and other employee groups have largely contributed. For this reason, we find it ironic that management has been critical of Republic Holdings for destroying the Midwest Airlines brand while they risk weakening our own product.
To be clear, we are encouraged that management is looking for ways to grow profitability. We believe, however, that over the long-term, AirTran pilots are better suited to performing flying for AirTran, and we are hopeful that the Company will realize the benefits of having AirTran pilots do that work. Southwest and JetBlue don’t let others fly their passengers, and neither should we.
Be assured that the MEC is exploring its legal options to determine if this agreement violates our scope language. In the meantime, we will be closely monitoring this arrangement and working with the Association’s Economic & Financial Analysis Department to quantify the impact to our pilots. Of course, restrictions on the Company’s right to outsource will be a subject of negotiations during our upcoming discussions on scope. While recent events no doubt highlight the importance of Section 1 of our collective bargaining agreement, you can be confident that the MEC’s guidance to the Negotiating Committee on scope did not require any such reminder.
We need you to participate now. We need every line pilot to attend SPSC events to ensure that management knows how seriously we take this potential threat to our profession and to our job security. You will soon receive information on the next SPSC event. Please make every effort to attend and demonstrate to management not only that you are concerned by their actions to harm our brand and outsource our flying, but also that you are determined to achieve a new contract with better scope, better pay, and better work rules. Remember: we ARE major airline pilots, and we DESERVE a major airline contract.
In unity,
Your Master Executive Council
Fellow Pilots,
AirTran has just announced an agreement with SkyWest for CRJ feeder service into Milwaukee. Under the terms of the deal, SkyWest will initially operate five CRJ-200 aircraft–in SkyWest livery–between Pittsburgh (PIT), St. Louis (STL), Canton/Akron (CAK), Indianapolis (IND), Des Moines (DSM), Omaha (OMA) and Milwaukee (MKE). Any additional service resulting from this agreement is not yet known.
We are concerned by our management’s move to shift flying to another carrier, even as growth at mainline AirTran has stagnated for nearly two years. This affects all of us, as pilot career progression could be slowed by such outsourcing.
Furthermore, it’s unclear how the utilization of RJs in 2010 would be any more successful or profitable than it was to use them in 2003, when the company ended AirTran Jet-Connect. What is abundantly clear, unfortunately, is that our contract allows management great latitude to give your job to other airlines, including non-union SkyWest.
We believe today’s announcement is an affront to AirTran pilots, as well as all AirTran employees, who have worked so hard to build this airline, only to potentially have their jobs outsourced. The name AirTran reflects the quality service to which pilots and other employee groups have largely contributed. For this reason, we find it ironic that management has been critical of Republic Holdings for destroying the Midwest Airlines brand while they risk weakening our own product.
To be clear, we are encouraged that management is looking for ways to grow profitability. We believe, however, that over the long-term, AirTran pilots are better suited to performing flying for AirTran, and we are hopeful that the Company will realize the benefits of having AirTran pilots do that work. Southwest and JetBlue don’t let others fly their passengers, and neither should we.
Be assured that the MEC is exploring its legal options to determine if this agreement violates our scope language. In the meantime, we will be closely monitoring this arrangement and working with the Association’s Economic & Financial Analysis Department to quantify the impact to our pilots. Of course, restrictions on the Company’s right to outsource will be a subject of negotiations during our upcoming discussions on scope. While recent events no doubt highlight the importance of Section 1 of our collective bargaining agreement, you can be confident that the MEC’s guidance to the Negotiating Committee on scope did not require any such reminder.
We need you to participate now. We need every line pilot to attend SPSC events to ensure that management knows how seriously we take this potential threat to our profession and to our job security. You will soon receive information on the next SPSC event. Please make every effort to attend and demonstrate to management not only that you are concerned by their actions to harm our brand and outsource our flying, but also that you are determined to achieve a new contract with better scope, better pay, and better work rules. Remember: we ARE major airline pilots, and we DESERVE a major airline contract.
In unity,
Your Master Executive Council
11-04-2009, 09:15 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Regardless AirTran needs to nail down scope NOW in order to stop this from spreading like a cancer and for that matter everyone needs to nail down scope.......NOW! It might cost you a few $ on your next contract but it will save you an unimaginable about in the long run.
Also, it’s interesting that SKW doesn’t plan on creating an MKE domicile for this agreement. That raises some questions as well. Like I said, I think this agreement was brokered by SKW and not AirTran's Mgmnt team. SKW saw a void and wanted to fill it and AirTran was the only operator out of MKE they could do it with.
JMO.
11-04-2009, 09:48 PM
#29
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
That way they have to negotiate it away instead of just write in a clause about it....
AirTran management, like their senior pilot group, is strongly ex-eastern and in turn hardcore anti-union and anything that could possibly be associated as such....
11-05-2009, 02:39 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Delta M88 A ATL
Posts: 383
Well,...the giant hasn't woke up yet. I'm referring to DAL. Northwest used operate a large hub in MKE, with DC10, 757, 727 and DC9's performing the flying. Northwest previously included MKE as part of the "heartland strategy," and always protected it.
My guess is that as the economy improves, DAL will sit back and watch the shakeout of the flying. Then, watch for Delta to begin increasing mainline ops in Mke.
My guess is that as the economy improves, DAL will sit back and watch the shakeout of the flying. Then, watch for Delta to begin increasing mainline ops in Mke.
