KC10 FATboy

It does make sense ... as I proposed. I have been in plenty of airplanes where the overhead speakers were touchy, scratchy, intermittent, etc. So they take their headsets off and maybe the speaker isn't working properly. They get engrossed with their laptop and new bidding with DAL and they lose SA.

They had time to speak to ALPA and a lawyer. If they were sleeping, this thing would have been over and they'd have their jobs. They told the investigators that they were on computers. They wouldn't have done that if it wasn't true. Doing so meant that they knew they would probably get in serious trouble with the FAA or fired from the company.

If they were sleeping, why lie about that? It happens to many crews and more frequently than you would imagine.

atpcliff

Hi!

I know two guys that flew about 2 1/2 hours without talking to anyone...flew through a bunch of ATC sectors.

They were having a heated discussion about religion. Both VERY experienced pilots.

So, we can solve this problem by banning conversation in the cockpit. Sterile cockpit from block out to block in.

Do you know what is the #1 distractor and cause of car accidents (when the accident is caused by distractions)? Having small children in the vehicle. The obvious answer to fix this problem is to ban children under age 8 from riding in automobiles.

cliff
Nairobi
PS-I found on long flights, ESPECIALLY when very fatigued, that listening to music in cruise helped me be more alert during the penetration/approach/landing at the end of the leg.

IrishTiger

Can you explain that one?

av8sean

As much as we want to think of a reason up to help these guys... it's obvious they were sleeping.

Does the Delta bidding system even work offline? Most systems like kronos or crewtrac require an internet connection, which none of the airbus fleet have.

DeadHead

So conversation is a distraction, but listening to music isn't. I respectfully disagree, it's important to keep situational awareness first and foremost, but to keep a zero tolerance, sterile cockpit procedure in play for the entire flight is extreme. I personally feel a little outside discussion between crewmembers is healthy to the cockpit environment during non-critical phases of flight. The human mind needs the occasional outside interaction, personally I believe it can be more fatiguing to strictly focus in on nothing other than your flight duties. I think it has something to do with Sensory Deprivation, if pilots can't talk they may start daydreaming, while also be more prone to falling asleep.

Yeah, and what the heck is Penetration???

afterburn81

I do believe there was a little sarcasm in his post. Like you I totally agree that social interaction is a must while at cruise if desired. Think about a transoceanic flight 14 hours at cruise with no conversation between three guys. Everyone just staring at something pushing buttons arbitrarily trying to look like they are doing something all for the camera. Not a healthy environment. However, I'd be a fool to not think there is someone out there working hard on ensuring us overpaid under worked bus drivers don't make a peep on the flightdeck. As far as laptops go, well I'm sure that's a done deal at all the remaining airlines that don't already have this in the company policies.

When all they hype came out about low-time pilots after the Colgan issue, I had a few rude passengers stick their heads in the door and blatantly ask if I had enough hours to fly this airplane. I understand their concern but c'mon. All I could say was "here's your sign". My last trip I had someone stick their head in the door and in a serious manner (not joking at all) tell us that we need to ensure them we will not be using our notebooks. Yeah, way to go NTSB and media. Getting pretty annoying if you ask me.

fatbus

How close were they to being shot down ? Dangerous if you ask me no matter if they were sleeping or bidding. Total lack of airmanship. Sorry this was not cool !!

DeadHead

Yeah, rereading his post, I can see the sarcasm there. Funny thing is I truly believe that there are people out there who actually believe ALL conversation should be banned. Those are probably the same people who think that one day pilots won't be needed on an aircraft since the autopilot/computers do everything anyway.

I've been getting those same comments at work, I guess you really just needs to take it with a grain of salt while shrugging your shoulders. The disrespectful hint of arrogance is what annoys me the most. I equate it to lying on a surgery room table getting ready for surgery, and just before the surgeon puts you under you look up at him/her and say,
"Hey, Doc you sure you know what your doing?"

I think the general public thinks the job has become so automated that piloting skill, ability, and decision making play a minute role in the day to day operations of flying an aircraft. The whole debacle with flight #188, as well as how the media, NTSB, and FAA, are over-sensationalizing it, will do nothing more than add to this stigma from the general public.