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Learning ramp frequencies, etc. is a pretty easy thing to do. Flying an airplane is also quite easy. Flying it right in the FMC is more challenging to some one who hasn't seen it before, regional folks have. So much emphasis at CAL, and most airlines that have FMC aircraft, is managing the cockpit and flying. Most of us former regional guys already have the FMC figured out and can focus on other things, military folks have a tougher time with the FMC which causes distraction, that being said they still get through it. I'm not knocking the military pilots, 1/2 my class is military and a great bunch of folks who know airplanes.

Fact is, whether military or civilian, we all have our strong suits and short comings. Put me in an F16 and I'll get my ass kicked, but I can VNAV the crap out of the 737!

TankerDriver

I agree with everything said above (about mil vs civ that is). I went into Air Force UPT with about 1,500 hours of civ time. 1200 or so from CFI'ing. What I found through the first phase of pilot training was that the flying was easy (accept for formation - that was quite challenging). It was learning the military way of doing things that was the hardest part. I believe having "seasoned" hands allowed me to feel a lot more comfortable in the airplane vs the guy coming in with his 40 hours and PPL, which allowed me to free up some brain cells to use on other things and stay ahead of the airplane. A lot of the mil IP's will say prior experience doesn't make a difference, which for the most part is BS. However, for it to help, you need to use the experience wisely and never, ever act like you know it all. Once we got into advanced training (T-1's/38's), the advantage leveled out a bit. It still helped though.

That said, as much as everyone thinks military training is the cat's meow, it's very much a firehose and the 300 or so hours you get over the course of about 14 months is just enough to make a new military pilot dangerous. There is plenty more to learn once you're in operational world and there are many bad apples that get through training by the skin of their teeth who still fly an airplane like a 100 hour private pilot (but now they're flying a 200,000lb+ 4-engine jet!).

This may be airframe dependant, but I can say the most significant difference between flying in the military and flying commercially, is that the military is not a flying career. Most of the time, flying is your second job and doing your officer duties (flying a desk of some sort) is your primary job. As a commercial pilot, your job is to fly. You fly 10-15 times a month on average. You're exposed to aviation much more often than some military pilots because that's your job. You're not a Commander's Exec officer up to your armpits in OPR's/EPR's, award packages, or in other words, crap that has nothing to do with flying. At home station, on average, I only fly 2-3 times a month for training. Since January, I've only logged about 55 hours of flight time. I know some guys who're so busy with their desk job, the struggle to get out of the office to fly once a month to stay current. These are the ones you have to watch out for as I have had a few try to kill us. As much as I try to stay in the books, you can't tell me a regional pilot that has been flying 60 hours a month in the 121 world doesn't have an advantage over the average mil pilot going into a major. In the tanker world, we very rarely fly through busy airspace and/or into busy fields. However, we do fly over Iraq and do WHATEVER it takes to get gas to the fighters who get the bombs to the A-holes killing our boys and girls on the ground.

What the airlines see mil-types as, is trainable. We've gotten through one of the most structured flight training programs in the world and they're willing to invest in this even though we've got less flight time. Do I agree with it? Yes and no. I can relate to both sides of the argument and I truely respect the job that airline pilots do day in and day out (especially the ones that do it for $25,000 a year ).

fecav8r

What? Where do you get this valuable tidbit of info? First of all you're insinuating that military pilots don't transit thru the National airspace system. We just take off whenever we want and come up with our own rules? Not only do military pilots have to comply with the FAR/AIM, but we also have a myriad of restrictions that are placed on us by our parent service organization. Yeah, I know it's tough getting in and out of Hoboken, but try strapping on an F-18 and doing some of the sh1t they do or taking a C-130 into a 300o foot dirt strip at night, on goggles, with nmo lights ont eh field. I'll take Hobokebn any day. And if you think the recurrent training they give you in the regional is difficult, try any of the 4 or 5 different check rides and written exams you have to accomplish every quarter/semi-annual/year. No, I don't believe that " any major airline instructor" ever made a blanket statement like that.

CargoBob

Most posts above are really accurate IMO...I've seen incredible pilots come from both and have seen a few bad from both.

Flying fighters is obviously challenging...and we get all the glory...but my bro flys hercs and they do challenging stuff: night vision goggle assault takeoffs on dirt strips for one...and he flys into kabul and Baghdad--why sweat LGA???????????

We all know flying 737-777 well is not that tough...so as far as easier to train??????????????????????

The background checks w/ mil guys is a plus...In the mil, if you hit your wife, bounce checks, look at kiddie porn, etc... you will be discharged. A 8-10 yr mil guy proved himself not only a descent pilot but also a fairly solid person. There are exceptions of course!! civilian pilot also proves himself as a 8-10 yr regional pilot...but you can slip through cracks more easily than the microscopic and transparent mil life

Also, one should check the background on some pilots that claim to be mil pilots...you will find some guys that were enlisted crew members riding in the back or navigators that got flying time the civie route and yet they pass themselves off as mil pilots.

One other thing...to get commisioned you are severely humbled: USAFA/OTS/flt. screening/UPT etc...I believe a good round of hazing in your youth is essential!!!! I fly w/ civies that got that humbling whether it be in sports, frat, workforce...but i have flown w/ a few super rich kids that mommie and daddy bought them $180,000 worth of flying...again only a small #...

One other thing...99% of mil guys are right of center politically, thus intelligent!! My feeling is most civies (90%) feel the same way, but when I meet a liberal in the cockpit(rarely)...he/she is almost 9 times out of ten a civie. AND NO ONE SHOULD BE CAUGHT FLYING A JET WHILE BEING A LIBERAL!!!

To sum up my opinion...both systems produce excellent pilots but the mil guy is a more known qty...and it doesn't hurt that the majority of pilot hiring is done by ex-mil...and that is changing fast!

CargoBob

fecav8r: HE IS A TANKER GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT EXPLAINS IT!!!!!!!!!!
Just kidding...I need your gas so I can kill hajis

TankerDriver

I don't think fecav8r's post was aimed towards mine. It was to iad737's.

LAfrequentflyer

One other thing...to get commisioned you are severely humbled: USAFA/OTS/flt. screening/UPT etc...I believe a good round of hazing in your youth is essential!!!!


Well said...I got my share of hazing as a 2n Lt...I thank god I'm no longer a butter bar...

-LAFF

P-3Bubba

I made my first Trans-Atlantic crossing as a co-pilot when I had 300hrs. The next time I did it I had 900hrs and was the Aircraft Commander. Ive been into Boston, NYC area and even London with the ole P-3. Now thats experience thats going to lasts a career.

PS- I remember the airspace in Iraq as pretty busy.

Eric Stratton

Ahh the sillyness of CargoMargret continues...

dojetdriver

Read the release of the C-5 Dover crash. Yep, the mil guys are the best trained. Especially in CRM, systems knowledge, and emergency procdeures.

Not a slam in mil guys, but this whole stance the the mil is for only the top gun-best of the best-super pilots and only the cream of the crop can cut it in the mil and the trainig is so surperior is a little weak.

Yeah, I know civ guys screw up all the time. But mil guys are not exactly "perfect" either and subject to every single pitfall that any civ pilot is.