newKnow

When I left the movie theater, I took from it what I knew all along. That our government and politicians are being bought and paid for by Wall Street and the big corporations. I also didn't see him offer an alternative to capitalism, but it did seem that he suggests that we stop taking this crap from our elected officials and business and companies we work for.

You see my signature. It's like we are on the same page. I know exactly who is trying to control us. The movie did nothing but provide me with more points to strengthen my position.

jungle

"When politicians control what is bought and sold, they will always be the first to be bought and sold" UNK


Easy to blame the big forces, but hard to recognize that every bit of power and control we cede to others puts us all in a worse position.
Deciding that you don't want to control the actions or freedom of others seems to be a very good choice in the long run.







Perhaps Moore himself says it best:

Moore argued that “a socialist government like Cuba would’ve still let me make movies, but would also have provided the external discipline to save me from my vices. I’d have been able to become a big man politically without being allowed to become a big man physically.”

He is wanting the hand of a socialst government he much admires to control his vices and still let him have his freedom, not that they would have allowed him to make films critical of that government, but the thought is quaint.

We can't have it both ways.

dojetdriver

I think he would have been able to become a complete fat bastard just fine no matter where/ how he lived.

milky

I think you have it a little askew. Hard work, honesty, and a good set of morals doesn't itself make you wealthier. I can be a hard worker, etc, and choose to work for McDonald's as my lifetime career. In fact, I can choose to stay as a fry cook. After a good 15 years of hard work, never being dishonest and showing no immorality, it will be arguable that I'm the best fry cook in the industry, but I probably will not make more than a dollar or two over minimum wage. Even then, I will be one of the highest paid fry cooks if the company has enough pity on me to keep me on at such a high rate of pay. It turns out that a relatively inexperienced fry cook can do a 'good enough' job, so paying me those extra $2/hr because I have 15 years experience making fries doesn't actually yield McDonald's the extra $2 worth of benefit for hour in which I work. Even though it would be charitable for McDonald's to pay me extra, it is not good business because there are a never-ending supply of new fry cooks that can be trained relatively cheaply to replace me if I get a little too stuck on myself. So, when I storm into my manager's office and demand another raise or I'll quit, a smart manager will thank me for my 15 years of work and ask me for my apron.

If you need me to spell it out more clearly for you:

You are a pilot. There are a bunch of people out there that are willing to fly for the wages that are being paid right now. There are plenty of customers that are happy with the experience of the pilots that are currently available at the wages being offered. Therefore, the market is working.
Until one of the sides of the equation changes (pilots stop showing up to work with a limitless supply behind them to take their jobs or the customers stop buying tickets because they are not happy with the pilots that are working for the airlines), the market will continue on as it is going. Well, I guess you could try to implement more controls on the market from the government, but that wouldn't really be capitalism.

newKnow

So, what was his incorrect conclusion?

jungle

I would encourage you all to read as much as you can, you can't begin to understand what is going on from a two hour film.
A lot of what passes for discussion is one side calling the other stupid. Forget the partisan figures and the right or left.
Ultimately the blackest chapters in human history have been written by handing too much power to the state. Any state.

Have a look here, maybe you will see where this is headed and how it evolved. Not the only view, but a slightly different view:

Inside The Great American Bubble Machine : Rolling Stone

jungle

Moore argued that “a socialist government like Cuba would’ve still let me make movies, but would also have provided the external discipline to save me from my vices. I’d have been able to become a big man politically without being allowed to become a big man physically.”

newKnow

I see the quote in the Arizona Conservative Blog, but never heard him say anything like that in the movie....

bryris

Michael Moore is a d-bag. Period.

Kilgore Trout