I smell a merger brewing with AA/ US Airways
09-09-2009, 05:58 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Also, it's interesting to me how we believe rumors we like. The A'A guys see a dismantlement of LCC, which is totally cashless and out of options and has no nice pieces left, so Parker spends a lot of time on his knees servicing Arpey. The East/West guys wake up every morning trying not to say "you're ruining my life , I hope you die", instead of "pass me the butter please", so, naturally, they hear about a divorce. And the good part (their part) goes somewhere nice, because AMR has to be nice, since they're cahsless and ou of options, and need the juicy LCC (East or West) pieces because they're so good.
Then you have pilots, in general, that hear the whole thing hinges on a seniority deal, and labor peace, and so Arpey and Parker and spending their evenings together arguing staple vs. DOH.
I tend to believe that it can't possibly be more heinous than the LCC merger, from a labor perspective, but still I can't help but note that every trip I hear a handful of cactii across the pond. So the airline still runs, USAPA tantrums notwhistanding.
And since no amount of infighting has ever shut down an airline, but since infighting has weakened many a union, and resulted in many a lousy contract, I conclude that you and me (meaning pilots) are very, very low down the list when Arpey and Parker get talking.
I think the whole thing has to do with what pieces make sense where. And (for example) it sure makes a lot of sense to me, from LCC's perspective, to give Delta LGA, in order to create something even bigger with AMR.
I think we'll all be quite surprised (not pleasantly) when we see what the results of these discussions are. And everyone will probably be disappointed to know their feelings were never a consideration.
Then you have pilots, in general, that hear the whole thing hinges on a seniority deal, and labor peace, and so Arpey and Parker and spending their evenings together arguing staple vs. DOH.
I tend to believe that it can't possibly be more heinous than the LCC merger, from a labor perspective, but still I can't help but note that every trip I hear a handful of cactii across the pond. So the airline still runs, USAPA tantrums notwhistanding.
And since no amount of infighting has ever shut down an airline, but since infighting has weakened many a union, and resulted in many a lousy contract, I conclude that you and me (meaning pilots) are very, very low down the list when Arpey and Parker get talking.
I think the whole thing has to do with what pieces make sense where. And (for example) it sure makes a lot of sense to me, from LCC's perspective, to give Delta LGA, in order to create something even bigger with AMR.
I think we'll all be quite surprised (not pleasantly) when we see what the results of these discussions are. And everyone will probably be disappointed to know their feelings were never a consideration.
Last edited by IC ALL; 09-09-2009 at 06:46 AM.
09-09-2009, 06:03 AM
#72
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Also, it's interesting to me how we believe rumors we like. The A'A guys see a dismantlement of LCC, which is totally cashless and out of options and has no nice pieces left, so Parker spends a lot of time on his knees servicing Arpey. The East/West guys wake up every morning trying not to say "you're ruining my life , I hope you die", instead of "pass me the butter please", so, naturally, they hear about a divorce. And the good part (their part) goes somewhere nice, because AMR has to be nice, since they're cahsless and ou of options, and need the juicy LCC (East or West) pieces because they're so good.
Then you have pilots, in general, that hear the whole thing hinges on a seniority deal, and labor peace, and so Arpey and Parker and spending their evenings together arguing staple vs. DOH.
I tend to believe that it can't possibly be more heinous than the LCC merger, from a labor perspective, but still I can't help but note that every trip I hear a handful of cactii across the pond. So the airline still runs, USAPA tantrums notwhistanding.
And since no amount of infighting has ever shut down an airline, but since infighting has weakened many a union, and resulted in many a lousy contract, I conclude that you and me (meaning pilots) are very, very low down the list when Arpey and Parker get talking.
I think the whole thing has to do with what pieces make sense where. And (for example) it sure makes a lot of sense to me, from LCC's perspective, to give Delta LGA, in order to create something even bigger with AMR.
I think we'll all be quite surprised (not pleasantly) when we see what the results of these discussions are. And everyone will probably be disappointed to know their feelings were never a consideration.
Then you have pilots, in general, that hear the whole thing hinges on a seniority deal, and labor peace, and so Arpey and Parker and spending their evenings together arguing staple vs. DOH.
I tend to believe that it can't possibly be more heinous than the LCC merger, from a labor perspective, but still I can't help but note that every trip I hear a handful of cactii across the pond. So the airline still runs, USAPA tantrums notwhistanding.
And since no amount of infighting has ever shut down an airline, but since infighting has weakened many a union, and resulted in many a lousy contract, I conclude that you and me (meaning pilots) are very, very low down the list when Arpey and Parker get talking.
I think the whole thing has to do with what pieces make sense where. And (for example) it sure makes a lot of sense to me, from LCC's perspective, to give Delta LGA, in order to create something even bigger with AMR.
I think we'll all be quite surprised (not pleasantly) when we see what the results of these discussions are. And everyone will probably be disappointed to know their feelings were never a consideration.
After 20 years at Eagle, you've got to stand in line to kick me in the acorns. For me, this situation, if true (and I'm skeptical) would only be another whack in my already numb groin.
Last edited by IC ALL; 09-09-2009 at 06:47 AM. Reason: quote edited
09-09-2009, 07:06 AM
#73
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Good post, agreed. Hopefully, the past won't be repeated.
09-09-2009, 09:09 AM
#74
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Agreed.
Just like AMR buying TWA to counter a UAL/U marraige that never happened. It cost them 800 mil for all the purchasing and another 800 mil to dump most everything including most of their fleet, routes and hubs. All they kept was some of their equipment and employees, most of which they furloughed.
But I sincerely hope that even AMR wouldn't be stupid enough to allow their precious rep (or so THEY believe) to be placed in the hands of Mesa and that was the crux of my assumption of the absence of COMPLETE stupidity.
Just like AMR buying TWA to counter a UAL/U marraige that never happened. It cost them 800 mil for all the purchasing and another 800 mil to dump most everything including most of their fleet, routes and hubs. All they kept was some of their equipment and employees, most of which they furloughed.
But I sincerely hope that even AMR wouldn't be stupid enough to allow their precious rep (or so THEY believe) to be placed in the hands of Mesa and that was the crux of my assumption of the absence of COMPLETE stupidity.
As many of us have seen in the recent years, it's not always the codeshare/or regional partner that does it the best who gets the 'flying'. Sometimes 'they' (Execs/BODs/shareholders) want the cheapest means to make it work in the lean present day market. Make no bits about it, the cheapest bid on the regional flying contracts can often (not always) lead to those awarded to do the flying for various mainline carriers.
When it comes to carriers like the one you mentioned earlier, it's easy to see how mgt can go ahead and "step over the dollar to save the penny".
Not good.
09-09-2009, 09:45 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: My comfy old Barcalounger
Posts: 115
I don't see aa/lcc happening, nothing matches the logical merge ual/lcc, co and aa are holding their own and a merger won't help them, now ual close to bk with compatible fleets and hubs with lcc it's a matter of time and tilton coming to the realization he can't right the ship. You heard it here first.
I'm sorry,"Compatible fleets with LCC"?
Really? UAL has 20 -/+ 744's, 50-ish 777's and another 30 -/+ 763's and LCC has first run 762's from PI that aren't true ER frames and maybe what, 15 Airbus 330's?
I seem to remember in 2000 US Air crews making dopey comments about "Getting their 747 manuals" and "Flying to Sydney".
No way in hell UAL or AMR pull LCC into the lifeboat.
09-09-2009, 10:00 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 259
"Throw all of the accusations about favoritism out there you want to. Let me share a few observations with you from my 29 years of ATC."
Interesting, the ATC folks were striking about the time you got hired.
09-09-2009, 10:13 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 259
UAL Pilots As Scabs
The hypocrisy laden comments on this thread is endless.
09-09-2009, 11:05 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: undefined
Posts: 328
I'm sorry,"Compatible fleets with LCC"?
Really? UAL has 20 -/+ 744's, 50-ish 777's and another 30 -/+ 763's and LCC has first run 762's from PI that aren't true ER frames and maybe what, 15 Airbus 330's?
I seem to remember in 2000 US Air crews making dopey comments about "Getting their 747 manuals" and "Flying to Sydney".
No way in hell UAL or AMR pull LCC into the lifeboat.
Really? UAL has 20 -/+ 744's, 50-ish 777's and another 30 -/+ 763's and LCC has first run 762's from PI that aren't true ER frames and maybe what, 15 Airbus 330's?
I seem to remember in 2000 US Air crews making dopey comments about "Getting their 747 manuals" and "Flying to Sydney".
No way in hell UAL or AMR pull LCC into the lifeboat.
Fleet compatiblity means Zero. Route structure means more. LCC does not really compliment either UAL or AA very much. not enough to buy them anyways.
I think the LCC and AA guys are getting worked up over too much.
RAH will end up owning most of the domestic LCC assets, then they will go hunting for VA and Spirit, then thier dominitation will be complete!
09-09-2009, 06:10 PM
#79
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,665
Agreed, calm it down a notch boys. Arpey is smart financially, and there is no way AMR will buy LCC outright. At most I could see some pieces being bought like the E190 fleet, some terminal space, slots, but there is no way in hell the two companies will merge.
Smartest post of the thread. Whatever the outcome is with USAir, two groups working towards the same goal is always preferable.
Smartest post of the thread. Whatever the outcome is with USAir, two groups working towards the same goal is always preferable.
09-09-2009, 06:33 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,502
I don't think LCC is an attractive merger partner by any means, but I am hurt that you all would leave us standing in a corner at the big dance, particularly when you know we will put out.
Here's another kicker in any discussion of the new US Airways - Doug Parker's ego. There were pretty intense discussions between Parker and Tilton this past spring and they were done in ultimately by Tilton not willing to turn the reigns over to Doogie. Parker wants to be the Big Guy and he will sell us all out to get what he thinks he is entitled to. Same deal with CO and UAL, CEO egos are involved. Someone is going to have to be the beeotch in these deals and take one for the team or else get paid beacoup bucks to go away.
Labor issues will not drag on because you have the example of DAL/NWA and the Nic award as the seniority list that has been set. AA (or whoever) has their widebodies protected and everything else gets ratioed in. AA guts the hubs and we all wind up on furlough and have to get on with our lives.
Ce la Vie
Here's another kicker in any discussion of the new US Airways - Doug Parker's ego. There were pretty intense discussions between Parker and Tilton this past spring and they were done in ultimately by Tilton not willing to turn the reigns over to Doogie. Parker wants to be the Big Guy and he will sell us all out to get what he thinks he is entitled to. Same deal with CO and UAL, CEO egos are involved. Someone is going to have to be the beeotch in these deals and take one for the team or else get paid beacoup bucks to go away.
Labor issues will not drag on because you have the example of DAL/NWA and the Nic award as the seniority list that has been set. AA (or whoever) has their widebodies protected and everything else gets ratioed in. AA guts the hubs and we all wind up on furlough and have to get on with our lives.
Ce la Vie
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