beetlehog

I fly with many pilots who rotate way too quickly. I am curious what the peanut gallery thinks about this issue. I am currently on the MD-11 which is prone to tail strikes a little more than other aircraft ( takeoff and landing) but I am talking primarily about rotations. Why rotate so quickly? Makes no sense to me.

AAflyer

Take-off every aircraft as if you were flying the 727 and you can't go wrong

AA

BoilerUP

Dunno about the MD11, but isn't most if not all Part 25 takeoff performance based upon a 3 degree/sec rotation? Too fast can cause problems with the tail or comfort, too slow and your performance goes out the window. What's the definition, however, of "too fast" or "too slow"?

Would a fast rotation cause a tail strike? I'd think rotating to an excessively high pitch attitude (regardless of the speed of the rotation) would be a bigger problem...but again I don't know the plane!

KC10 FATboy

Bettlehog, how were you taught to rotate the MD-11? In the KC-10, we use a 3-degree per second for 4 seconds continuous rotation to the computed target pitch -- with airspeed being the primary instrument for rotation. In the MD-88, we basically do the same thing to a target pitch of 20 degrees or whatever is needed for V2+20.

If someone rotated fast on me, I would definitely bring it to their attention. Remember, if you don't rotate as specified in the flight manual, you will either run the risk of a tail strike or allow the airspeed to be excessive which would reduce planned obstacle clearance performance -- neither of which are good.

Pineapple Guy

KC10,

Gotta a little test for you. Next time you're out flying, hack the clock sometime to get the second hand running, then as soon as your seat mate starts pulling back, time him. I did this many years ago on the M88, and NO ONE comes close to 3 degrees per second all the way to 20 degrees ANU. If they do, its the most uncomfortable thing in the world. It's more like 1.5 - 2.0. If you get to 20 degrees in less than 10 seconds, let me know. Just a little thing to try next time, for curiosity sake.

Having said that, I agree whole heartedly with AAFlyer; if you fly the thing off, you'll never crash on take-off for forgetting flaps, losing an engine at or below V2, hitting windshear at lift off, etc.

And I've never known a single accident caused by someone rotating too slowly. Not one. But there have been MANY caused by rotating too fast and then bad things happening with insufficient margin to recover. It's been a pet peeve of mine for a long time.

Bwipilot

Some would answer that it's the true origination of the term "Jerk-off"

FlyingViking

Engineers way of flying...

Pilots way of flying...

Both work fine, I prefer the pilot way just like any passenger would.

KC10 FATboy

I've never timed anyone in the MD-88. In the -10, as an instructor/evaluator, I did it all the time. The 3 degrees per second was adequate and didn't feel uncomfortable. 7 seconds to go from 0 to 20 is uncomfortable? I'm not sure if I agree, but on my next airline rotation, I will time myself and the fella I'm flying with as see how fast we are rotating.

buzzpat

Can't rotate the 73-800 slowly enough. Jerk it off and you hit the tail skid. Makes a lot of CA's very nervous. A nice four or five second rotation is key.

Mason32

Just give it a yank.... get the AOA above the relative wind and let physics do the rest, works everytime....

ok, ok... some fine tuning needed from time to time... but that's some of that SPS...

SPS - Secret Pilot S%# T