pilot124

Toiletduck does NOT speak for us here at RAH. He has been called out by name on RP.org and told to ****. Let the unions do their jobs and work something fair out. The majority want to integrate the list (avoid wipsaw) and let F9 put up a fence for 5-10 years. If we do infact purchase F9 let me be the first to say welcome abord and lets work together as professionals to do what's right.

HalinTexas

I was going to post a long diatribe about this, but I have no dog in this fight.

Just a few things.

As labor, remember that you're not ultimately responsible for the success or failure of your airline. You may contribute to it, but can't be blamed for it's failures and you can't take all the credit for the successes.

Remember history. Remember when Matlin-Patterson bought ATA in late 2005. They were supposed to be the second savior behind SWA. They then created "New ATA Holdings, inc." We tootled along with no business plan. Late 2006 we bought "new" DC10's from NWA. Big mistake. Real dogs. New (recycled) CEO in Mr. Karnik appeared. Dennison (ex-SWA CFO) appointed him, but remained on the BOD. In April, M-P changed the name from New ATA, to GAL (Global Aero Logistics) and bought World Holdings, Inc, which owned World and N. American. Here's where we went inverted.

I immediately chimed up to everyone that listened, and I wasn't alone, that we needed to integrate the lists, NOW. No one listened. One of the three airlines was going to get screwed royally. No one listened. I thought it would be NA since they had no contract, and were only really getting what World through their way. The existing agreement could not be sustained as ATA and World/NA were on opposing CRAF/Military charter teams. ATA with FedEx and World/NA with UPS. No one listened. Labor had no say, and we didn't hear that FedEx was a little PO'd about it. Of the 9 DC10's we were supposed to get, only four came on line. (What pigs.) Four different paint jobs held together with DMI stickers. Two went to World, and I still don't know what happened to the rest. The three groups wanted to stay separate. (While inverted, don't pull on the yoke!) A really lame agreement was made that the groups would "work together toward a common goal." Remember, ATA was ALPA and World/NA were separate IBT groups.

MP/GAL allowed ATA to crash and burn with incompetent management. The pilot group believed all kinds of things were going to happen, about half of them good. We were never informed of what MP's plans were. We surrendered any power we were going to have by not unifying with IBT to form one list. It is the belief of most of the pilots at ATA that SWA used ATA to keep Airtran or America West out of MDW. They had no real interest in anything other than that. It is also believed that MP used ATA to gain a larger foothold on the military and international charter and cargo markets. We were a sacrificial lamb for Market Share. Our union leadership was told by the "General" that was on the World BOD that Herb Kelleher was instrumental in sealing the deal. In the end, SWA didn't care. They made lots of money on the deal, and gained lots market share in MDW and Florida. Very shrewd indeed. GAL with SWA help, and some ATA "collateral" entered into a larger share of the N. American airline market. (Remember, they owned a controlling interest in Varig already.)

My advice is to get one list worked out and fast. Don't let the "new" management whipsaw you and sacrifice one of you for future growth. Integrate with seat protection and iron out the details later. Don't drag it out or one of you will get screwed.

So much for being short and to the point.

pilot124

Very well said and lesson learned. 1 list NO EXCEPTIONS as per article 1 of our contract. I promise we will hold on to article 1 at all cost. There is a poll on our RP.org board with 97% agreeing 1 list.

MD80

Duck, I think you missed the point.

BB is buying Midwest and Frontier because he sees the regional jet market being squeezed in the future. Republic pilots need these deals to go through as much as the Midwest or Frontier pilots.

JeremiahWeed

80,
You are absolutely correct and I think a lot more of our pilots are aware of that being the case. Having said that, had F9 not been in BK and YX on the verge of extinction, I think this would have a completely different outcome. Unfortunately, given the current status of both carriers things are going to be interesting for all parties involved.

Lets just hope for the best and wait to pass judgement until an arbitrator has had an opportunity to decide.

Remember, Duck is a lone ranger!

Joker

DeltaPaySoon

Absolutely and without question. Bedford is making his bed the best he can. ALL CONTRACT companies will have a very limited future in the age of seat contraction.


Bedfords "valuation" works for him, and this does make sense for RAH, but he might be the only one by proof of no other bidders (currently). While Frontier is showing recent gains they still have to prove viable with Bedford running things.

md11phlyer

Throw in the curveball that F9 still has a lot of guys on the street. Step 1 should be getting those guys back. Whether a combined list would expedite that process is an interesting debate.

Forgive my ignorance, has Republic furloughed?

3XLoser

All three companies have pilots on the street. Frontier actually has the least. This is especially complicated because Midwest pilots were furloughed as a direct result of their flying being illegaly outsourced to Republic. I know people who don't know the Midwest contract are blaming them for not having scope, but they had protection specifically for this, but the arbitrator basically changed the subject in his spineless ruling.

Some people are talking about Midwest as if they're evaporating into history, without understanding what they're talking about. If Midwest was just dying, it makes no sense that the first airplanes they parked were actually the ones with the lowest seat mile costs. The 717 was a great airplane, except for the fact that it was a dead end. Midwest's highly paid consultants decided that they were better off letting the dead end birds get repoed. This happened after Hoeksema and Bedford (and TPG) were already talking. This deal has been on for a while now, and Frontier for two months longer.

Republic is not engaging in aviation charity, which makes their pilots entitled to things that highly experienced professionals at two other stand alone airlines are not. This is business. It's also a giant turd sandwich, and we are all going to take a bite. You can't have a name like Toiletduck without having a taste too.

Toiletduck, with a few more years in the airline industry, you might learn that the only thing that any of us is ever entitled to is the long dirt nap, and we get paid lots of money to make sure that the passengers in our care don't arrive at that ultimate destination while on our watch. Well, at least some of us get paid lots of money for that.

B757200ER

Actually, the new public law, originally called the "Bond-McCaskill Bill", was brought into being after what AA did to TWA employees in 2001. It doesn't require use of 'Allegheny/Mohawk' (which is DOH), but does require airlines that purchase more than 50% of another airline (eg RAH-F9-ME) to submit seniority integration of all employees to neutral, binding, third-party arbitration. That should provide a fair shake for everyone, from all groups.

Jinrai Butai

What if they dissolved F9 and brought the pieces over to RAH for reassembly?