champ42272

The FAA, led by former ALPA MEC Chairman Randy Babbitt, is looking to rewrite the flight time and duty day regulations for FAR 121 carriers.

My questions to this forum is, if you had the authority to write the regulation and implement new flight time and duty day rules, what would they look like.

For me, I would suggest no more than a 12 hour duty day (domestic), 14 hour (international), and current Ultra Long Haul rules, but keep the 8 hour flight time restriction for two pilot aircrews. Comments?

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Champ 42272

acl65pilot

Jet Blue wanted 10 hrs a day. That way they could do turns to the west coast. IMHO two legs like that would really reduce safety on that approach back in to Kennedy.

The one thing I think that they can do is reduce the max duty day to 14-15 hrs. and NO REDUCED REST NO MATTER WHAT! Min would be 10 hrs with at least nine behind the door!

IMHO a 12 hr duty day given the way current airlines schedule would increase the time away from home by a few days a month. Maybe a Max Sked of 12 with an override for IROPS to 14 or 15.

NWA320pilot

For me it's not about flight time as much as duty time...... I would be happy with a 12 hour max duty day and even 10 hours of flight time as long as it limited the number of legs to 3 or less.

rickair7777

Thread re-opened due to popular demand.

buffmike80

14 hour duty, 10 hours of rest. No reduced, no compensatory, no 12 but expandable to 14 cause who is to say that won't happen all the time, because at some airlines every day is an IROP. I am OK with going to 10 hours of flight time as long as there is a maximum number of legs. I like the idea of doing a trans-con turn, you would only have to fly two days a week and get a credit of 80 hours for the bid.

B00sted

Better have some strong wording on the IROPS. Because places like Pinnacle will always be in a IROP. Just like they take advantage of the reduced rest clause and SCHEDULE reduce rest on a regular basis.

12 hours rest. With show times for the trip either AM or PM (I think SWA has something like this), not a combination of both. Having 12 hours of rest if pointless if your scheduled to have a 6am show one morning and 12pm the next.

Flight time doesn't matter. Duty time is that matters. 60 hours duty a week. 200 hours duty a month. 2200 hours duty a year.

While were at it.. Lets change our pay rates to Duty time as well.

Eric Stratton

I think that is a bad idea. Just get them to OK it with a 3rd pilot like we do with international flights.

1 leg, 10 hours of flight time, 13 hours of duty and back side of the clock flying is not a good thing. 8 hour red eyes are bad enough.

EmbraerFlyer

NO LEGAL TO START LEGAL TO FINISH! This is total BS!

FNG320

I flew in the test back then. Doing the daytime only, transcon turns with a day off in between (total 20 hour of block) were much more restfull and we were much more alert on the return to JFK than doing the same 20hr 4 day trips with lots of redeye and day sleeps (FAA legal). We were also more rested than doing a typical 12-14hr duty day/7.5 hour block/4 leg day up/down the east coast.

Both the NASA data and the JetBlue "test" proved it viable and safer. If it were to be included in the FAR changes, here is how I would implement it to prevent abuses

1. Increase max block by 2 man crew to 12hrs
2. Max scheduled duty day would be 14-15hrs.
3. rest after such a flight would be 2x the number of block hours. (Thus a 11hr day would require 22hr minimum rest.)
4. Max of 2 legs
5. Report would be no earlier than 0700 and no later than 1000hrs in base (to prevent early reports or excessively late returns which also affect alertness)
6. Daytime only departures, arrivials may be afer sunset
7. Recovery must be into same timezone as departure.
8. No change to 30/7 rule
9. No change to 100/month rule
10. No change to 1000/year rule


The idea is to keep everyone on the same sleep schedule, in the same time zone with minimum high risk times (takeoff and landings) and provide plenty of rest. The potential is for guys to get the same number of hours in 8-10-12 days instead of 12-14-16-18 day under current rules. More days off, less fatique, safer.

BY the way you say "would uncrease the time away from home by a few days a month. is a non starter. That means I would lose 2 days off per month minimum! No way, no how! If I have 14 days off and it goes to 12, that is a 15% reduction in my days off! (And that might be a minimum as it could actually reduce your days off by even 3 or 4 day!) Unless they are going to give everyone a +15% or more pay raise so they can fly 15% less hours and make the same pay (to get the same number of day off), they no way, no how! Guy, you need to wakeup and realize what you are suggesting.

Just my opinion........

FNG

NWA320pilot

If a pilot group has the right flight/duty rigs there would be no loss of time off....