Eric Stratton

It's real easy to be happy at a new job but go and take away 40% pay, gut a contract, wipe away pensions and most people would be upset. Remember jetblue's pay just got around industry standard and that was after all the cutting at the majors. Do you think they would be just as happy if they took paycuts like the rest of the industry has?

You say if unions were doing their job that pay rates would be where they should be (higher). At the same time you congratulate jetblue on getting industry average and not setting them to where you seem to think unions should have them. Kind of a double standard.

If you think unions have caused so many problems, what kind of problems have the pay at jetblue, airtran and other LCC's caused? I'm sure their undercutting pay has really helped the union carriers keep pay up.

Your idea that it would be better without unions is pretty much laughable even with the issues ALPA has. Maybe without them we could all strive to the jetblue level or get really lucky and have Virgin America pay and work rules.

homer j

Lottery: CRF guy, you just won 300 million in the power ball! CRF guy: Crap, how much will I have to pay in taxes? Lighten up, man, and take a deep breath. Yes, we have a lot of issues that still need to be worked out, and if they aren't, you will most likely see the union you so desperately desire. In the meantime, try to be at least a little happy with your raise.

acl65pilot

Also before people toot WN's horn, remember why they finally came to an agreement with this latest contract. How long did it take them to negotiate it?

alfaromeo

You are absolutely correct. Direct pay can only represent 60-70% of your total compensation, depending on your benefits. Many things, like long term disability, are a distant thought until you need them, and then you need them like yesterday. Comparing pay rates alone does not compare total compensation.

Goes211

You'll need to explain the statement "if they were really doing their job." Are you saying that in some way the unions are intentionally keeping payrates lower, employees unhappy, and working conditions inadequate? Surely they are not. Support this statement with references and examples.


In my opinion, this is quite naive. Abolish unions and the corporation will find it in it's good heart to pay everyone well and provide fantastic benefits. What is a Corporation? The name comes of course from "corpo" meaning body. In the eyes of the law it is one undying person, comprised of many entities (people) that has a sole purpose. The only thing the Corporation cares about is MONEY. It is what it's purpose is. It is the reason for it's existence. It does not care, and is actually incapable of caring for intangibles that do not affect it's bottom line. Indirectly, if keeping employees marginally happy helps profitability, it will strive to help them, but only because it also affects total profit.

JetBlue is a great example. I am very glad for my JB buddies that they now have a respectable payrate, but I also notice that their "premium" pay doesn't kick in until 78 hours of hard time. Is this an actual gain? Or does the payrate increase basically reflect the amount these pilots were making previously when they flew the extra hours over premium? I can only surmise it is the latter. Most likely, they haven't gained anything except a number on paper. The "hidden" pay is now accounted for. Additionally, I would be happier for my JB brethren to have a trip rig, so they wouldn't have to fly all that hard time. This will never happen without the formation of a union. The corporations will simply never willingly surrender profit. If they could pay lower, they would. i.e. Without a union, the pressure on pay and benefits is actually negative, not positive. Besides inflationary increases, the company has no incentive to raise pay and benefits, and in fact would easily cut pay and benefits to maintain profit.

I think it is a benefit to realize that my company doesn't care about me in the least and that a union, however imperfect, is the only way to force a corporation to provide a decent QOL to it's workers. If a huge national union starts to resemble a corporation itself, then that can affect its operation. But I submit that with a real CBA, our JB buddies will have real gains in parity with the other airlines in terms of QOL, and pay is just one aspect. Your statement seems to reflect an attitude that puts a corporation on a pedestal that it doesn't deserve to be on. It is not your friend.

johnso29

I agree. Higher payrates at RAH would be great. The problem is Brian Bedford decided to configure the E190s to 96 seats. What does this mean? It means he can use RAH's current payrates since they negotiated pay up to 99 seats back in 2003. It also means he was able to bypass the contractual requirement of 6 months notification to the union of new aircraft type so they could negotiate pay rates.

He will now be able to drag out contract negotiations, & RAH the Midwest CONNECTION carrier will be operating aircraft with MORE SEATS then the Midwest MAINLINE Aircraft. It's sad.

PS-I'm not trying to martyr the RAH pilots, just pointing out the typical sneaky games management plays on ALL pilots. Good Luck to the RAH pilots. Hopefully you'll find a way to get better payrates.

Eric Stratton

No the problem is that RAH pilots were stupid to have that in their contract in the first place.

There is nothing sneaky about this. They allowed an airplane with 99 seats or less to be paid at these pathetic rates. Whether this airplane was manufactured or not doesn't matter. They put it in their contract.

There contract has been up for over a year and a half so they've already been draging out negotiations.

Eric Stratton

So how long before the other issues should be worked out?

DALFA

Sorry, I must have missed the memo where its worked out so nice for us.

Delta flight attendants are some of the most senior in the industry, yet the average Delta f/a made only $37,000 in 2008 compared to $40,000 at UA, $50,000 at CAL and AA and $53,000 at WN. On top of this the workrules for DL f/a's are all F.A.R minumims...again, the worst in the industry.

I worked 1,400 hours in 2008 and my W-2 said I made $37,000...again explain to me how well the threat of a union has workers for me.

buffmike80

Duty, Trip, TAFB riggs, LOS, LTD, STD, OJI are still in the works , and sounds like we will get those in the next couple of months as they are still working out the details but just wanted to get out the pay rates by the end of May like they said they would.