JetJock16

Yes, once airlines start hiring they will be holding strong to their hiring mins. At SkyWest we require 1000 total time, 100 hours of multi and a current 1st class medical; that's the minimum. There are many pros and cons to pilot factories, one pro is that if and when you start instructing for them you’ll build hours very quick. Over 80+% of many pilot factories students are foreign, it’s MUCH cheaper to train in the US with our civil system than anywhere else (Asia and Europe send thousands and thousands of students to the US each year for training). These foreign students are more challenging due to their poor communication skills but these students are on strict schedules and require constant teaching. If you start instructing for a pilot factory like Pan Am in Phoenix you’ll log almost 100 hours of flight time a month. Most of my friends who instructed at Pan Am easily topped 100 and sometimes pushed 120+/month. After a year or so you’ll be more than competitive for the regionals (probably sitting around 1500 TT & 250 Multi+). Bad part about a pilot factory is that they really don’t care about anyone other than their contracts. As an instructor they want you to work as hard as you can for as long as you can; no if’s, and’s or but’s (LOL!, that will prepare you for the airlines).

JetJock16

JC, I love random schedules and what FlyJsh is stating is not the norm. I average 14+ hours on overnights and 4.5+ legs a day. If you fly for Great Lakes then yes you’ll see a lot of 8 leg days. 7 & 8 leg days are not the norm at SkyWest even on our Turbo-Prop. You will have a few but they are far between. Most SKW TP 4 day trips only average 16-18 legs (pays around 20 on average) with the really high paying (22+ hours) ones topping 20 legs.

I bid a.m. trips so 90% of my trips start around 5 in the morning but I’m done by 2 or 3 in the afternoon. Plus with a.m. trips you tend to avoid most of the long delays that come as the day progresses.

There’s a bell curve for everything, on one side is the bad and the other the good. Remember that you will always here more bad than good because we all love to complain. It's not all peaches and cream but it's nowhere as bad as many make it out to be. The question is ……… do you like consistently random schedules with lots of change that have to be ran on time (LOL!)? If not then don't become an airline pilot.

cruiseclimb

What do you call a commuter pilot, or an artist, without a girlfriend???


HOMELESS!!



Go fly for the military for a couple of years.. it'll be the coolest ride you can imagine

JCharlton

Military is the most difficult aviation to qualify for. From my research, hardly any of the applicants ever get off the ground. Your definition of "coolest ride" does not fit mine, as I'm not looking for sheer excitement. I have no interest in flying for the military. Many of my family and friends are very successful in many careers, including art. An artist I have known makes more money than any doctor or lawyer and none of them are homeless. J. Lipking (artist)

JCharlton

JetJock16: "The question is ……… do you like consistently random schedules with lots of change that have to be ran on time (LOL!)? If not then don't become an airline pilot."

I worked for a company that always put employees on-call, I hated always having my life in a random flux. Are pilots that work for, say, Virgin Atlantic on the same type of odd scheduling or is that a regional thing?

JetJock16

Yes even mainline is random. One week your trip could start on Thursday at 5 am and end on Sunday at 8 pm. Your second trip might start on Wednesday at 1 pm and end on Saturday at 10 pm. Then you may have 5 days off with another trip that starts at 8 pm on Friday and ends on Monday at 10 am.

Basically your start and end times are almost never the same. Some trips may run with all early shows on all 4 days and your next trip might have 1 early show, 1 mid morning (say 10ish) and the other 2 days might be late shows around 2pm +. Bottom line is it's random but if you’re a line holder then you were able to bid on your schedule so you will know what your month will look like well in advance. You’ll know when your trips start and end and if they are a.m. or p.m. trips.

Now if you're on reserve you're on-call and at the mercy of the company, after-all a reserve pilot is one of the most junior pilots on the list and expected to be used by the airline to fill in the gaps. You might have a reserve schedule that's Sunday through Thursday from 4 am to 4 pm or 9 am to 9 pm. You'll sit at home or at a "crashpad" until you're called in. Your airline will expect you to be fit to fly and ready to fly whenever they need you. After you are contacted you will normally have 2 hours to report to the airport where you could be scheduled to deadhead (ride in the back with the passengers) to a location and then fly one leg back. Sometimes you'll get 2, 3 or 4 day trips but usually it something out and back. Reserve pilot normally only get 10 days off per month where lineholders usually get 14+. Life on reserve sucks but it doesn't last, you will get a line sooner or later.

Also, as a junior pilot don't expect weekends or holidays off until you're at least half way up the line holder list. Until then you will get a random weekend off here and there but nothing consistent.

Diver Driver

JCharlton: The synopsis listed a page or two back by FlyJSH, although a funny read, is 100% accurate. There is nothing there that is not the truth. He actually left out some stuff, like if you were on reserve living out of base, you would have to commute to a crash pad the night before or the day of (if you are lucky). First year pay is less than $20k/year at the regionals. If you go corporate, you will be on call ALL THE TIME in most cases.

Even at the major airlines schedules are consistently changing. You could have a report time of 1300 on day one with a 2100 release and an 0500 report the next day. Dont expect weekends off or a consistent schedule at the airlines unless you are in the top 2-5% of your seat's seniority list. This can take 10-30 years depending on a lot of factors.

I am 24 and have too much invested to turn my back right now, I'm still going to try to give it a go in this industry.... time will only tell if it will be a good decision. Flying is a great job, but a horrible career.

FlyJSH

Fair enough. Your company/seniority/base/situation is better than mine. I am glad somebody has it better than I.

What I can speak to is my company and my base. The line in my simulation would have gone to a very senior person because it was "commutable" (late first day show, early end on the last day) and had 23 hours of credit (lots of flying and no long sits). At my base, we have about 45 crews. Looking at this month's bid package, of those 45 lines (monthly schedules):

* 10-12 were four day "commutable" trips (like in the simulation). Very senior lines.
* 8-10 were four day trips with all oh-dark-thirty showtimes (good for non-commuters, only okay for commuters since they only spend one day in the crashpad).
* 8-10 were a mish-mash of day trips (horrible for commuters), two days, three days, and random strings
* 5 were "stand-ups" aka "high speeds". A stand up is the last flight in the evening and the first flight out in the morning with 3-6 hours at the hotel (unless a plane breaks and you need to do a repo flight, then you can be up all night). Each stand-up is ONE 12-14 hour duty period. They are about as bad for a commuter as day trips.
* 10 were reserve lines (pilot is on call with a 90 minute call out time). They were about equally split between oh-dark-thirty starts, 1000 starts, and stand-ups. Reserve lines are generally awarded to the most junior.

Of all the lines, only about 15 had at least three weekends off.


I am a lucky guy because I am so senior, I can bid on, and be awarded my choice of reserve lines! I don't care about flight time and my guarantee will pay my bills (no wife, no kids, no car payment, efficiency apartment in base), so I mostly bid stand-ups (I like working the back side of the clock) or a better reserve line. It works for me, but my situation is a rare one.

JCarlton, I am not saying don't become a pilot, I just want you to know what the real life is like. Flying planes is a blast, but working the job is hard.

Good luck,
JSH

JCharlton

I believe all of you, its a little worse than I thought. I not giving up that easily though : ) I really appreciate all the advice and information I have been provided here.


Question: Attending FlightSaftey Academy or Embry-Riddle, would that speed up and open opportunities for a better position with an airline? I don't want to be jumping puddles for more time than necessary.

ExperimentalAB

Virgin Atlantic bids on a 3-month cycle...!