The glory days are over
05-29-2006, 10:39 PM
#72
Self Employed.
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Josh
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
SkyHigh,
Despite some of my posts and bantering, I do think that you bring some balance to the boards that is worthwhile. However it is statements like these that ailenate your cause and diminish your stance as far as I'm concerned.
How can you make the statement that he MUST have left something of value behind, without knowing that particular individuals circumstance? By your arguements, everybody who works in this industry sacrifices family or life or money or whatever. That arguement could be made for any career path, and it's not fair to use a blanket statement to argue against a single individual.
You make the assumption that pilots who do overseas work must sacrifice their patriotism or family or whatever. Why's that? Many pilots I know work overseas. Most of them take their families. Those that do move families, do so as a GROUP DECISION. I spent time overseas as a kid, and am a better person for it. I don't consider myself screwed up, or that my family sacrificed because of it- quite the contrary... I think that we are better people because of it.
Has my family made sacrifices for my career? Sure. But in the same period of time, I've made sacrifices for my family. It's a two way street, and we (as a whole) are much more happy because of it.
Oh, and for the record not every pilot job out there kills the family because of travel away and missed anniversaries or endless nights in crappy hotel rooms. I for one am home in the house more than my wife, and she works an office job.... (and not because she has to... because she wants to.)
Despite some of my posts and bantering, I do think that you bring some balance to the boards that is worthwhile. However it is statements like these that ailenate your cause and diminish your stance as far as I'm concerned.
How can you make the statement that he MUST have left something of value behind, without knowing that particular individuals circumstance? By your arguements, everybody who works in this industry sacrifices family or life or money or whatever. That arguement could be made for any career path, and it's not fair to use a blanket statement to argue against a single individual.
You make the assumption that pilots who do overseas work must sacrifice their patriotism or family or whatever. Why's that? Many pilots I know work overseas. Most of them take their families. Those that do move families, do so as a GROUP DECISION. I spent time overseas as a kid, and am a better person for it. I don't consider myself screwed up, or that my family sacrificed because of it- quite the contrary... I think that we are better people because of it.
Has my family made sacrifices for my career? Sure. But in the same period of time, I've made sacrifices for my family. It's a two way street, and we (as a whole) are much more happy because of it.
Oh, and for the record not every pilot job out there kills the family because of travel away and missed anniversaries or endless nights in crappy hotel rooms. I for one am home in the house more than my wife, and she works an office job.... (and not because she has to... because she wants to.)
Our friend must have left behind friends, grandparents, his home, siblings and most everything else that has a deeper value than a bland apartment in Hong Kong or whatever else he calls home now. The pilot is off living the dream while the kids go to a school with guards holding UZI's at the front door. Few places in the outside world are happy with the USA right now. I am sure that life inside the American compound isn't much fun for those left behind. I am sure that many got there with their families but I can assure you that most come home alone.
SkyHigh
05-30-2006, 01:18 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 6,009
Skyhigh
Its a means to to an end to earn a living to pay the bills and provide for the future. Judgement should not be made on those who choose to do so with the consent and support of family memebers. Without the usual editorial, as you, we have the privilege of making our own choices in life.
Time to give it a rest son.
Its a means to to an end to earn a living to pay the bills and provide for the future. Judgement should not be made on those who choose to do so with the consent and support of family memebers. Without the usual editorial, as you, we have the privilege of making our own choices in life.
Time to give it a rest son.
Last edited by captjns; 05-30-2006 at 01:20 AM.
05-30-2006, 05:18 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: A320 capt
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by captjns
Skyhigh
Its a means to to an end to earn a living to pay the bills and provide for the future. Judgement should not be made on those who choose to do so with the consent and support of family memebers. Without the usual editorial, as you, we have the privilege of making our own choices in life.
Time to give it a rest son.
Its a means to to an end to earn a living to pay the bills and provide for the future. Judgement should not be made on those who choose to do so with the consent and support of family memebers. Without the usual editorial, as you, we have the privilege of making our own choices in life.
Time to give it a rest son.
) seem to believe that aviation revolves around the usa, agreed for us its ultimately important BUT in the rest of the world, its rapidly becomming "the day of the pilot" and aviation is booming, our problem here is this---we have approx 320 million people and 3 times the land mass of (for eg) India, they have 1.1 billion people
and we have 10 times as many aircraft, --my buddy who is over there now flying a A320 told me that since Jet blue "recinded" an order for 12 A320`s, a airline in India got a supposedly happy suprise and got delivery of 5 all at once lol well 3 are sitting gleaming in the sun no pilots!!
05-30-2006, 05:55 AM
#75
Self Employed.
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Opinions
I understand that many of you work overseas and my aim is not to insult anyone. My point is that most people would not make the same choice and would not be happy living outside of the US. Often it seems that people make the overseas choice in a desperate attempt to salvage a failing career often at the expense of their personal life. If I were single perhaps I too would be in a foreign land however I don't think I would be the better for it. I worked with a large group of ex-overseas American pilots who returned to the US to fly for National Airlines when they started up. The results of so much time away was nothing to be admired.
Home, family and living where one wishes has a lot to due with life satisfaction. How can one build a full family life upon foreign soil? My only issue is in regards to pilots who try and make it work with families in tow. It would be easy to be drawn in by the shinny new A320's and enjoy being swept away with a foreign version of the dream, but for those left behind in the compound I am sure that it would be no fun and little would be gained.
SKyHigh
Home, family and living where one wishes has a lot to due with life satisfaction. How can one build a full family life upon foreign soil? My only issue is in regards to pilots who try and make it work with families in tow. It would be easy to be drawn in by the shinny new A320's and enjoy being swept away with a foreign version of the dream, but for those left behind in the compound I am sure that it would be no fun and little would be gained.
SKyHigh
05-30-2006, 06:14 AM
#76
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Capt/(D/O)
Posts: 15
I was hired in the late 80’s flying international flights out of NY. I listened to the Captains say things like a car a month referencing their pay. I complained about getting stuck with the steak all the time as we dined crossing the Atlantic. Fast forward 12 years and I have a Flight attendant against the wall in the galley accusing them of hording all the pretzels. Alpo has failed the profession by not unifying all with strength nationally. They allowed financially stronger airlines pilots to prey on the careers of their brothers which weaken us all in the end.
The real test for this industry is whether or not the regional pilots can get unity and improve the working conditions via a different national union other than Alpo. They are the key I believe in saving the occupation. Their pay and working conditions can only go up.
Mach8Forest
The real test for this industry is whether or not the regional pilots can get unity and improve the working conditions via a different national union other than Alpo. They are the key I believe in saving the occupation. Their pay and working conditions can only go up.
Mach8Forest
05-30-2006, 06:53 AM
#77
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
satisfaction. How can one build a full family life upon foreign soil?
Seems like a lot of unhappy, empty families by your definition. Oh and believe it or not, there are places in the world where the quality of life is much better than here in the US. I know many families that live in Dubai and live very weathly, full lives (the entire family). Many of them have "reimmigrated" the entire extended family away from the US.
Time to open your mind. In this era of worldwide commerce and industry, it's plain silly to think that you have to live in the US if you're a US citizen to be happy. Plenty of opportunity overseas and it's definately something that kids can easily adapt to and love. To back that point up, many of our prominent leaders lived overseas as children.
You might not choose to live overseas, but don't judge those who do, or determine that they are destined for unhappiness and broken families because of it. Remember... most overseas pilots in long term legitimate jobs take the family too.
Last edited by FlyerJosh; 05-30-2006 at 06:56 AM.
05-30-2006, 07:41 AM
#78
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Normal Life
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
So are you telling me that the uncountable hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Americans living abroad don't have full family lives? According to the US census the federal goverment ALONE has over half million people and the US department of state estimates that over 3 million US citizens make residence overseas.
Seems like a lot of unhappy, empty families by your definition. Oh and believe it or not, there are places in the world where the quality of life is much better than here in the US. I know many families that live in Dubai and live very weathly, full lives (the entire family). Many of them have "reimmigrated" the entire extended family away from the US.
Time to open your mind. In this era of worldwide commerce and industry, it's plain silly to think that you have to live in the US if you're a US citizen to be happy. Plenty of opportunity overseas and it's definitely something that kids can easily adapt to and love. To back that point up, many of our prominent leaders lived overseas as children.
You might not choose to live overseas, but don't judge those who do, or determine that they are destined for unhappiness and broken families because of it. Remember... most overseas pilots in long term legitimate jobs take the family too.
Seems like a lot of unhappy, empty families by your definition. Oh and believe it or not, there are places in the world where the quality of life is much better than here in the US. I know many families that live in Dubai and live very weathly, full lives (the entire family). Many of them have "reimmigrated" the entire extended family away from the US.
Time to open your mind. In this era of worldwide commerce and industry, it's plain silly to think that you have to live in the US if you're a US citizen to be happy. Plenty of opportunity overseas and it's definitely something that kids can easily adapt to and love. To back that point up, many of our prominent leaders lived overseas as children.
You might not choose to live overseas, but don't judge those who do, or determine that they are destined for unhappiness and broken families because of it. Remember... most overseas pilots in long term legitimate jobs take the family too.
SKyHigh
05-30-2006, 10:39 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: A320 capt
Posts: 161
on the humorous side
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
So are you telling me that the uncountable hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Americans living abroad don't have full family lives? According to the US census the federal goverment ALONE has over half million people and the US department of state estimates that over 3 million US citizens make residence overseas.
Seems like a lot of unhappy, empty families by your definition. Oh and believe it or not, there are places in the world where the quality of life is much better than here in the US. I know many families that live in Dubai and live very weathly, full lives (the entire family). Many of them have "reimmigrated" the entire extended family away from the US.
Time to open your mind. In this era of worldwide commerce and industry, it's plain silly to think that you have to live in the US if you're a US citizen to be happy. Plenty of opportunity overseas and it's definately something that kids can easily adapt to and love. To back that point up, many of our prominent leaders lived overseas as children.
You might not choose to live overseas, but don't judge those who do, or determine that they are destined for unhappiness and broken families because of it. Remember... most overseas pilots in long term legitimate jobs take the family too.
Seems like a lot of unhappy, empty families by your definition. Oh and believe it or not, there are places in the world where the quality of life is much better than here in the US. I know many families that live in Dubai and live very weathly, full lives (the entire family). Many of them have "reimmigrated" the entire extended family away from the US.
Time to open your mind. In this era of worldwide commerce and industry, it's plain silly to think that you have to live in the US if you're a US citizen to be happy. Plenty of opportunity overseas and it's definately something that kids can easily adapt to and love. To back that point up, many of our prominent leaders lived overseas as children.
You might not choose to live overseas, but don't judge those who do, or determine that they are destined for unhappiness and broken families because of it. Remember... most overseas pilots in long term legitimate jobs take the family too.
05-30-2006, 10:52 AM
#80
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: B737 F/O
Posts: 78
I do not think the views expressed by skyhigh is off base at all. This job is a difficult one and a lot of sacrifices have to be made to be "successful". The pay at the regional level is pathetic and the number of "good" airline jobs are slim. It takes a special person with a very understanding family to peruse a career in this industry today.
I had an opportunity to fly in China after 9/11. At the time it was either that or dig ditches. I chose to dig ditches but was fortunate to find another job in aviation before I went to home depot to buy a shovel.
My advice is fly to live do not live to fly!
I had an opportunity to fly in China after 9/11. At the time it was either that or dig ditches. I chose to dig ditches but was fortunate to find another job in aviation before I went to home depot to buy a shovel.
My advice is fly to live do not live to fly!
Last edited by Calpilot; 05-30-2006 at 11:01 AM.
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