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Old 04-15-2009, 11:21 AM
  #41  
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Swa will only buy a 737 carrier, it will be Alaska or Sun Country.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:29 AM
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I agree that Sun Country definitely fits this rumor better than anyone else out there. From what little I understand about them, they're not exactly flush with cash right now either.

Any chances this would be done along the lines of the Southwest ATA acquisition? That would certainly not bode well for the pilots of Sun Country!

Just reflecting on the fact that just because a company gets bought by SWA, it doesn't necessarily bode well for the employees of the acquired company. SWA is quite selective of it's workforce, and I don't think they're ever all that keen on bringing thousands of "unknowns" into the SWA family.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by deltabound
I agree that Sun Country definitely fits this rumor better than anyone else out there. From what little I understand about them, they're not exactly flush with cash right now either.

Any chances this would be done along the lines of the Southwest ATA acquisition? That would certainly not bode well for the pilots of Sun Country!

Just reflecting on the fact that just because a company gets bought by SWA, it doesn't necessarily bode well for the employees of the acquired company. SWA is quite selective of it's workforce, and I don't think they're ever all that keen on bringing thousands of "unknowns" into the SWA family.
ATA was just a codeshare, not acquisition of ATA employees, so I think this would be different. SWA bought Morris Air in the 1990's and I think those guys made out pretty well.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:57 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Sniper
That was what I thought, and what gives me pause. WN says 'we need to get airline XYZ, and want to work with you [SWAPA] to do it'. Great, cooperation with management, mutually beneficial (what makes Southwest great, and different from everyone else) - so SWAPA designs the TA so that airline XYZ can easily be captured. The TA is ratified, and then - surprise, airline XYZ is not gonna' work. But . . . it turns out the the hole opened up in scope for airline XYZ is useful for acquiring airline ABC - and, for whatever reason, this is seen as a game changer for SWAPA.

I know this is not the way things are done @ WN, but WN is changing. Fed Ex is now caught in a quite a pickle due to a similar situation. Spend negotiating capital on good A-380 rates, let the 757 get labeled 'narrowbody' - whoops, Fed Ex isn't getting 380's (they knew that while negotiating the TA with Fed Ex ALPA), but rather now wants 777's. And no, the 757 rates are not up for renegotiation.

As soon as I read this 'specifically worked into the TA' talk, my spidy senses told me this could be an issue.

Good luck SWAPA guys, I've got to run - the black helicopters are after me.
I wish more guys here would think like you...they just dont get that when you enter into a contract, you should be thinking defensively. Why the hell is it when i sell a house, I get the most defensive thinking guy on the planet and when I need a contract to protect my livelihood, very few of those around me think that way. Good luck avoiding the black helicopters...you should be okay today, they are busy chasing down hardworking American families for their taxes.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:59 AM
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How does Sun Country fit? They do not have a regional operation which is what the language allows for.
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:00 PM
  #46  
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Or do they?
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:00 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Sniper
That was what I thought, and what gives me pause. WN says 'we need to get airline XYZ, and want to work with you [SWAPA] to do it'. Great, cooperation with management, mutually beneficial (what makes Southwest great, and different from everyone else) - so SWAPA designs the TA so that airline XYZ can easily be captured. The TA is ratified, and then - surprise, airline XYZ is not gonna' work. But . . . it turns out the the hole opened up in scope for airline XYZ is useful for acquiring airline ABC - and, for whatever reason, this is seen as a game changer for SWAPA.

I know this is not the way things are done @ WN, but WN is changing. Fed Ex is now caught in a quite a pickle due to a similar situation. Spend negotiating capital on good A-380 rates, let the 757 get labeled 'narrowbody' - whoops, Fed Ex isn't getting 380's (they knew that while negotiating the TA with Fed Ex ALPA), but rather now wants 777's. And no, the 757 rates are not up for renegotiation.

As soon as I read this 'specifically worked into the TA' talk, my spidy senses told me this could be an issue.

Good luck SWAPA guys, I've got to run - the black helicopters are after me.
Sniper..
Those pesky black helos are after me too!

Good analysis though... as my father says... a rumor ain't nothing but a premature fact.

WN bought Muse air to kill it's competition. This time in may need to do it again.
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:55 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by CHQ Pilot
I would agree with you, but the pilot's TA prohibits any domestic codeshare. The TA has wording that also prevents any regional type aircraft, except through the aquisition of another airline that codeshares with regional aircraft. The wording was specific in the TA and was related to SWA wanting to move quickly to purchase another specific airline, which is unnamed.
Ahhhh, gotcha. Which brings me to....

Originally Posted by deltabound
Just reflecting on the fact that just because a company gets bought by SWA, it doesn't necessarily bode well for the employees of the acquired company. SWA is quite selective of it's workforce, and I don't think they're ever all that keen on bringing thousands of "unknowns" into the SWA family.
It's unfortunate, but you have a point. HR has a very big say in who gets in and who doesn't. If SY does get absorbed, I'd hope their drivers would at least get an interview. They don't have the size of operation to employ thousands in flight ops, but that's not important; I don't want anyone to lose a seat, right or left, or in the rear serving drinks for that matter.

This begs the question: How big was Morris when it was acquired? Did any crew lose jobs?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
And that is how greenmail is played.

Look at how AirTran was the unwitting beneficiary of the MidWest fiasco.
Also a good point, but Midwest's people had more to do with the rejection of FL than Northwest. Northwest just happened to get suckered into the deal and thus AirTran comes out on top.

Last edited by AMND1; 04-15-2009 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:39 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by deltabound
I agree that Sun Country definitely fits this rumor better than anyone else out there. From what little I understand about them, they're not exactly flush with cash right now either.

Any chances this would be done along the lines of the Southwest ATA acquisition? That would certainly not bode well for the pilots of Sun Country!
Just reflecting on the fact that just because a company gets bought by SWA, it doesn't necessarily bode well for the employees of the acquired company. SWA is quite selective of it's workforce, and I don't think they're ever all that keen on bringing thousands of "unknowns" into the SWA family.


Southwest Airlines to Buy Morris Air - The New York Times



Southwest Airlines to Buy Morris Air
By ADAM BRYANT
Published: Tuesday, December 14, 1993
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LinkedinDiggFacebookMixxMy SpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalink Southwest Airlines agreed yesterday to buy Morris Air, a Salt Lake City-based carrier roughly an eighth the size of Southwest, in a stock swap worth about $129 million.

The move amounted to a returned compliment by Southwest to June M. Morris, a former travel agent who modeled her airline after Southwest, using Boeing 737 jets, frill-free service and a low-fare strategy.

"We are kindred spirits," said Herbert D. Kelleher, Southwest's chief executive.

For Southwest's competitors, however, the purchase offered additional proof that Southwest is rapidly becoming more a national force than its name suggests. The airline has emerged as an industry leader in offering short flights, and most major carriers are scrambling to match its combination of consistent profitability and frequent flights with low fares.

"The fact that all airlines in one form or another are seeking to emulate the Southwest formula clearly attests to its great success," said Julius Maldutis, an airline analyst at Salomon Brothers.

The proposed deal would create a new competitive threat for Delta Air Lines at its Salt Lake City hub. Southwest is more focused than Morris on attracting business travelers and is likely to try to attract more by offering more frequent flights. No Southwest routes overlap those of Morris, which will give Southwest a new presence in the Northwest and West, adding 14 cities to its schedule.

Asked about the Morris acquisition, Delta executives appeared sanguine yesterday. "We really don't see that this is changing anything," said Bill Berry, a Delta spokesman. "If we've got to face a competitor, we would rather face a competitor with costs that are much closer to ours."

Delta's reaction prompted a burst of laughter from Mr. Kelleher during a telephone interview yesterday. The cost structures of Southwest and Morris "are virtually the same," he said.

Mr. Kelleher also said that Southwest would slowly merge Morris into its system over two to three years, during which Morris planes will be repainted, and Morris employees will be interviewed by Southwest. Although Southwest receives roughly 50 applicants for every job opening, Mr. Kelleher said he expected most Morris employees would be hired.

Discussions between the two airlines began about 50 days ago with a call from Ms. Morris, who is 62 and the only woman who is chief executive of a jet-service airline in the United States. Ms. Morris initiated the talks partly out of concern over her health, company officials said. After talks began, she was diagnosed as having breast cancer, for which she is now undergoing treatment.

Discussing the deal, Mr. Maldutis said, "It's an absolute steal." Morris has 21 planes, 3 of which it owns, and it is projected to earn $15 million to $20 million this year on revenues of $200 million. Southwest Stock Up $2

Southwest said the acquisition, financed with 3.6 million newly issued shares, was unlikely to dilute its earnings and would help it extend its recent track record of growing steadily by 15 percent a year. Southwest's stock closed up $2 yesterday at $36 in trading on New York Stock Exchange.

Still, the price is certain to be more than many people believed Ms. Morris would earn when in her 40's she started a small travel agency in her husband's photo-finishing shop. She landed many corporate accounts and built the agency into Utah's largest. She diversified into booking vacation packages, chartered planes to cut costs and eventually started her own charter airline, which began scheduled service in 1992.

"We use the word Southwest around our organization as much as we use Morris," said David Neeleman, the president of Morris Air. A buyout by Southwest was never a stated goal, Mr. Neeleman said, "but it was definitely something we had in the back of our mind."

Morris Air is one of a number of low-cost airlines that have increasingly become troublesome to large carriers that are losing money on short flights. Airlines like United are studying ways to mimic Southwest for parts of their route network, and airlines like Continental have already done so.

Southwest and Morris said they hoped to close the deal by the end of the month. Industry analysts said that at first glance, the proposed acquisition appeared unlikely to face any antitrust difficulties because the two carriers do not compete directly on any route.

The Morris deal, if completed, would be the second acquisition by Southwest. It acquired Muse Air in 1985, but ultimately sold off its assets because the operation did not mesh with its strategy.
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:09 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by AMND1
It's unfortunate, but you have a point. HR has a very big say in who gets in and who doesn't. If SY does get absorbed, I'd hope their drivers would at least get an interview. They don't have the size of operation to employ thousands in flight ops, but that's not important; I don't want anyone to lose a seat, right or left, or in the rear serving drinks for that matter.
I think that would have worked in the past, but the McCaskill-Bond Amendment now forces airlines to integrate employee groups through Allegheny-Mohawk. HR has a say in regards to new employees, but if SWA acquires another airline, their employees would become SWA employees. The days of staple and re-interview are gone. The question now lies with how they would be integrated.

SWA apparently was or is serious about acquiring another airline or else they wouldn't have gone to the lengths to add the language into the TA (which was pointed out, is on a TA at this point).
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