Originally Posted by Nortonious

And I hope for your sake an armed criminal never makes it into your home some night.

Guns can be an effective weapon in the hands of a SKILLED/TRAINED person who has FOREKNOWLEDGE of the event in question. In other situations, guns may have very little practical value.

Dude, since you don't own guns, your "rules of thumb" on gun ownership are like one of my passengers trying to give me advice on how to handle an emergency. Yeah, some people may freeze in a crisis, and some won't, some will hit what they aim at, some will miss...but having a gun in hand when needed is infinitely superior to the gun still sitting under glass in a store (or worse yet, legislated into confiscation).

I am merely drawing on life experience. How do you expect to be good at anything unless you train and practice on a regular basis? Did SWA and/or the AF turn you loose in one their planes after only a couple of lessons, and without proving yourself in a checkride? Why are these "rules of thumb" so offensive to you? While we're on the subject, I'll give you some more rules of thumb. I happen to train in the martial arts, and along the way I have learned a few things over the years. First of all, there is a BIG difference in learning some new, fancy technique in the dojo and actually applying it in a free-sparring situation (against someone who is at a minimum your size and ability), let alone applying it in a chaotic real life situation. In these situations, you revert back to the basics, i.e. those techniques that you have demonstrated (and know that you can execute) under pressure. Experienced and skilled fighters (professional, not some street punk) know this. They know their limits, what works and what doesn't. That is why MOST of these individuals are very humble, and they do not go around picking fights and/or bragging about what they would do. On the other hand, bragging about what you would do to someone and/or picking fights after taking a few lessons is a sure sign of a novice! These "novices" are actually dangerous people, in a "loose-cannon" sort of way (not because they are skilled fighters). I have seen so many examples of this that I have lost count! I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone that I'm a great fighter and that I would come out on top in every situation. However, I do know what I'm capable of doing in a stressful situation, because I train on a regular basis, and I know that I can execute some basic kickboxing/jui-jitsu moves against a superior opponent. Also, I do not seek to get into fights, because I have nothing to prove. If you train in your "art" on a regular basis, then you will know what I mean. In a nutshell, I'm assuming that you're in the "novice" category, based on your reaction to my "rules of thumb." How often do you train?!

It's dishonest to expect our Constitutional rights to be protected? GMAB!

The 2nd amendment came into being a long time ago, before there was even a concept of a strong federal government. I would just like to see folks admit their real reasons for owning guns. FWIW, I don't recall ever saying in any of my previous posts that you should not have the right to own a gun. This may sound corny to you, but I believe that your mind creates your world, and so a paranoid and dualistic person lives in a very dangerous world. Therefore, I would advise someone like you to obtain all of the weapons that you can!!!

A day at the range can be a lot of fun...sorry you don't understand. But I have never felt protected BY a gun, I protect myself and my family WITH my training and WITH the firearms I own.
OK, maybe like for some people driving a big car is a false sense of security and/or power. Like some people FEEL more powerful/invulnerable when they drink.

I mentioned in a previous post that I could imagine that shooting things (at a range) could be a lot of fun. Otherwise, I basically agree with the rest of this paragraph (provided the gun user has the requisite skill, training, discipline, and humility).

Droog (and a few others), no doubt you've already made up your mind(s) in the matter. Fine. I ain't gonna change your mind ad you ain't gonna change mine. Slice's excerpt from "On Killing" is right on the money and I have no doubt HIFLYR will defend his and his own if necessary...just as I will, no question about it. It really is that simple.

Don't like guns? Fine, don't buy one. Bottom line is gun control has never been proven to make a society safer, and I'd say there is really plenty of evidence to the contrary.

What evidence are you refering to? You can take statistics and try to prove anything that you want. Different localities have different dynamics at play, and it's silly to try to boil everything down to one (e.g. gun control) denominator. That's why it's ridiculus to claim that a place like Pig Loins, Arkansas is safer than New York City due to gun control laws. Again, my point is that guns are not the "be all to end all." They may help you in some situations (if you are properly trained), but do not assume that they will help you in every situation. The biggest key in self defense is situational awareness (not who is the best fighter or who is the most heavily armed). In other words, if a situation/people/place make you uncomfortable, then try to get out of there.

or Droog Sorry, couldn't resist.

Originally Posted by Nortonious

BTW-A little constructive criticism on posting: Your rebuttal to my previous post gets lost in the formatting (hard to distinguish between your text and mine...try and different font, color, or something).

Originally Posted by N49194

The thing that is most frustrating for those of us who are anti-gun (besides 2nd Amendment interpretation) is that we are forced to hope that the citizens who choose to carry a gun (conceal permit or FFDO or whatever) act responsibly, assess threat correctly and don't act out of selfish need.

Originally Posted by Pantera

To all the people that don't own or believe in ownership of firearms, You need to put up a sign in your front yard that says "we want to be safe, this is a gun free house" Until you do that you are just leaching off the security that gun owners with training like myself provided with omni presence. In other words the criminals don't know which house has guns and which ones do not.
So put out a sign and stop living in my shadow!

Originally Posted by Droog

Originally Posted by Droog
Even though I don't own guns....I would like to present the following rule of thumb: until you can DEMONSTRATE that you can pull that trigger WITHOUT HESITATION while looking someone in the eye DURING A HIGH-PRESSURE SITUATION (and splatter their brains all over your wife's new window treatments), DO NOT ASSUME that the gun will be of any use to you in a real confrontation.

Originally Posted by Nortonious

Dude, since you don't own guns, your "rules of thumb" on gun ownership are like one of my passengers trying to give me advice on how to handle an emergency.

Originally Posted by Nortonious

Yeah, some people may freeze in a crisis, and some won't, some will hit what they aim at, some will miss...but having a gun in hand when needed is infinitely superior to the gun still sitting under glass in a store.

Originally Posted by Nortonious

(or worse yet, legislated into confiscation)

Originally Posted by flynavyj

One friend of mine is pretty handy at getting to a shotgun if you don't knock on his door before entering.....