More sad Midwest news...
05-12-2009, 04:20 PM
#261
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
Who negotiated that contract? YX pilots or national? Who voted for and ratified it? YX pilots or national? If it was so bad, why did a majority of pilots vote for it? Either you guys were completely hoodwinked, (and don't want to admit it,) or more than 51% just didn't care enough about scope, or cared too much about something else to vote no.
Dude, what planet are you from.
We hired ALPA National to provide the legal help to negotiate a Labor contract. The pilots at Midwest did not pay over 10 million to ALPA National for them to hold our hands in negotiations. They are the experts.
I wouldn't count on a ALPA attorney to fly a MD80... might be a problem. Why would ALPA National count on a Midwest pilot to manage a labor contract for 400 pilots.
We are pilots.. not attorneys
05-12-2009, 04:40 PM
#262
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
Or perhaps some Midwest Pilot are in denial because the contract they approved did not provide the protection needed to fight off TH. While ALPA is supposed to protect our jobs and careers, it's still our responsibility to READ THE ENTIRE TA! Not to just stare at the pay.
Using your logic...
If I have a mechnical and a ALPA attorney is onboard. I will let him sign it off and take the responsibility. Not! The ALPA attorney is counting on me as the captain to handle flight operations.
We are pilots... not labor law attorneys
05-12-2009, 05:10 PM
#263
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
This should tell you something about ALPA attorneys,
US Airways Express Pilots Retain RJDC Attorney
As confidence in ALPA’s ability to fairly represent all its members continues to erode, the Allegheny, PSA, and Piedmont MEC’s join the growing ranks of pilots that have sought to retain independent counsel. As part of their efforts to protect the rights and interests of their pilots, the MEC’s representing US Airway’s wholly-owned subsidiaries have retained Mr. Michael Haber as their counsel. As a labor attorney, Michael Haber is experienced in airline labor law and already represents both ASA and Comair pilots in their efforts to ensure that they are not harmed by ALPA’s predatory bargaining at Delta.
US Airways Express Pilots Retain RJDC Attorney
As confidence in ALPA’s ability to fairly represent all its members continues to erode, the Allegheny, PSA, and Piedmont MEC’s join the growing ranks of pilots that have sought to retain independent counsel. As part of their efforts to protect the rights and interests of their pilots, the MEC’s representing US Airway’s wholly-owned subsidiaries have retained Mr. Michael Haber as their counsel. As a labor attorney, Michael Haber is experienced in airline labor law and already represents both ASA and Comair pilots in their efforts to ensure that they are not harmed by ALPA’s predatory bargaining at Delta.
05-12-2009, 06:24 PM
#264
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
So basically what you are saying is that the Midwest pilots are sheeple and will just vote however they are told. Got it. Do you just invest in whatever someone tells you to also without any independant research? I guess the pilot groups who vote down TAs, even after their MEC or national recommends a yes vote are fools in your eyes. After all, according to you, they are airline pilots, and not supposed to be independant thinkers who care about their future and don't take things on face value.
Little story for you. When I was with ASA we had a 120 that hit severe turbulence. You could see the wrinkles in the skin and the twist in the tail. MX signed it off for a ferry flight, but every pilot refused to fly it unless the MX guy who signed it off went also. He refused to go. But according to you, you're an airline pilot, if MX says its good to go, I guess you would have taken it.
Quite frankly, I'm done with this. All you have done is whine and complain how everyone and everything is against you. You want to know what everyone is going to do for you. While I don't believe anyone is responsible for the mess at Midwest except management, you make it really hard to care about the employees if you are representative of the group. I wish you well in whatever the future holds and hope that you will one day understand what personal responsibility for that future means and quit relying on others to make decisions for you.
Little story for you. When I was with ASA we had a 120 that hit severe turbulence. You could see the wrinkles in the skin and the twist in the tail. MX signed it off for a ferry flight, but every pilot refused to fly it unless the MX guy who signed it off went also. He refused to go. But according to you, you're an airline pilot, if MX says its good to go, I guess you would have taken it.
Quite frankly, I'm done with this. All you have done is whine and complain how everyone and everything is against you. You want to know what everyone is going to do for you. While I don't believe anyone is responsible for the mess at Midwest except management, you make it really hard to care about the employees if you are representative of the group. I wish you well in whatever the future holds and hope that you will one day understand what personal responsibility for that future means and quit relying on others to make decisions for you.
05-13-2009, 06:39 PM
#265
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
So basically what you are saying is that the Midwest pilots are sheeple and will just vote however they are told. Got it. Do you just invest in whatever someone tells you to also without any independant research? I guess the pilot groups who vote down TAs, even after their MEC or national recommends a yes vote are fools in your eyes. After all, according to you, they are airline pilots, and not supposed to be independant thinkers who care about their future and don't take things on face value.
Quite frankly, I'm done with this. All you have done is whine and complain how everyone and everything is against you. You want to know what everyone is going to do for you. While I don't believe anyone is responsible for the mess at Midwest except management, you make it really hard to care about the employees if you are representative of the group. I wish you well in whatever the future holds and hope that you will one day understand what personal responsibility for that future means and quit relying on others to make decisions for you.
Quite frankly, I'm done with this. All you have done is whine and complain how everyone and everything is against you. You want to know what everyone is going to do for you. While I don't believe anyone is responsible for the mess at Midwest except management, you make it really hard to care about the employees if you are representative of the group. I wish you well in whatever the future holds and hope that you will one day understand what personal responsibility for that future means and quit relying on others to make decisions for you.
We agree on one thing...
Airline pilots need to take responsibility for the future of our profession.
ALPA National is not providing the leadership needed for the future of our profession. We need to work to change ALPA or we will be whip-sawed against each other until our profession equals that of a bus driver.
If ALPA will not change... we need to hire independent labor attorneys to help negotiate our contracts or vote in a true labor union to fight for our profession.
Change is needed at ALPA National!
05-14-2009, 12:43 PM
#266
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: A319/320
Posts: 8
Well as a furloughed Midwest guy I can tell you many of us are intelligent enough to know the crooked CEO of Midwest is the reason we are out of work. I stuck it out for 13 years at Midwest because I enjoyed my job and was paid well. I passed an opportunity to join AirTran in 2003 because I knew from friends there that AirTran wanted badly to buy Midwest...and it made good sense...so I thought it was best to ride it out.
What I didn't count on, and who knows why, was the monumental greed and lack of integrity on the part of our CEO. He was more interested in getting an inflated all cash deal for himself and his cronies than selling to AirTran. He called the folks at Northwest to work the deal that came about. He knew it would mean the destruction of MidEx and the loss of thousands of jobs...and he didn't care then or now.
In my 20 years in the profession I have served two terms on an ALPA carrier MEC, been a grievance and scheduling chairman and I think ALPA is a troubled organization...a series of kingdoms that care little about anything but themselves and that has led to a loss of membership and wages for most everyone...it is a weak organization.
Having said that there is little that can be done when you have bad management and a weak contract. Yes...our negotiating committee and MEC knew there were holes in the agreement...they just didn't believe it would be an issue in the life of the contract...hindsight shows otherwise.
I have moved on to another carrier and don't much care about Tim H. and the airline he ruined anymore. Its just business in America sadly...all about greed.
Its sad to see all the pilot-to-pilot bashing I read on these message boards. Just think what might be accomplished if we all worked together to fight the erosion of this profession instead of trading insults about who works for the better airline...managements everywhere must love this dribble.
Fly safe all.
What I didn't count on, and who knows why, was the monumental greed and lack of integrity on the part of our CEO. He was more interested in getting an inflated all cash deal for himself and his cronies than selling to AirTran. He called the folks at Northwest to work the deal that came about. He knew it would mean the destruction of MidEx and the loss of thousands of jobs...and he didn't care then or now.
In my 20 years in the profession I have served two terms on an ALPA carrier MEC, been a grievance and scheduling chairman and I think ALPA is a troubled organization...a series of kingdoms that care little about anything but themselves and that has led to a loss of membership and wages for most everyone...it is a weak organization.
Having said that there is little that can be done when you have bad management and a weak contract. Yes...our negotiating committee and MEC knew there were holes in the agreement...they just didn't believe it would be an issue in the life of the contract...hindsight shows otherwise.
I have moved on to another carrier and don't much care about Tim H. and the airline he ruined anymore. Its just business in America sadly...all about greed.
Its sad to see all the pilot-to-pilot bashing I read on these message boards. Just think what might be accomplished if we all worked together to fight the erosion of this profession instead of trading insults about who works for the better airline...managements everywhere must love this dribble.
Fly safe all.
05-20-2009, 10:59 AM
#267
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Well as a furloughed Midwest guy I can tell you many of us are intelligent enough to know the crooked CEO of Midwest is the reason we are out of work. I stuck it out for 13 years at Midwest because I enjoyed my job and was paid well. I passed an opportunity to join AirTran in 2003 because I knew from friends there that AirTran wanted badly to buy Midwest...and it made good sense...so I thought it was best to ride it out.
What I didn't count on, and who knows why, was the monumental greed and lack of integrity on the part of our CEO. He was more interested in getting an inflated all cash deal for himself and his cronies than selling to AirTran. He called the folks at Northwest to work the deal that came about. He knew it would mean the destruction of MidEx and the loss of thousands of jobs...and he didn't care then or now.
In my 20 years in the profession I have served two terms on an ALPA carrier MEC, been a grievance and scheduling chairman and I think ALPA is a troubled organization...a series of kingdoms that care little about anything but themselves and that has led to a loss of membership and wages for most everyone...it is a weak organization.
Having said that there is little that can be done when you have bad management and a weak contract. Yes...our negotiating committee and MEC knew there were holes in the agreement...they just didn't believe it would be an issue in the life of the contract...hindsight shows otherwise.
I have moved on to another carrier and don't much care about Tim H. and the airline he ruined anymore. Its just business in America sadly...all about greed.
Its sad to see all the pilot-to-pilot bashing I read on these message boards. Just think what might be accomplished if we all worked together to fight the erosion of this profession instead of trading insults about who works for the better airline...managements everywhere must love this dribble.
Fly safe all.
What I didn't count on, and who knows why, was the monumental greed and lack of integrity on the part of our CEO. He was more interested in getting an inflated all cash deal for himself and his cronies than selling to AirTran. He called the folks at Northwest to work the deal that came about. He knew it would mean the destruction of MidEx and the loss of thousands of jobs...and he didn't care then or now.
In my 20 years in the profession I have served two terms on an ALPA carrier MEC, been a grievance and scheduling chairman and I think ALPA is a troubled organization...a series of kingdoms that care little about anything but themselves and that has led to a loss of membership and wages for most everyone...it is a weak organization.
Having said that there is little that can be done when you have bad management and a weak contract. Yes...our negotiating committee and MEC knew there were holes in the agreement...they just didn't believe it would be an issue in the life of the contract...hindsight shows otherwise.
I have moved on to another carrier and don't much care about Tim H. and the airline he ruined anymore. Its just business in America sadly...all about greed.
Its sad to see all the pilot-to-pilot bashing I read on these message boards. Just think what might be accomplished if we all worked together to fight the erosion of this profession instead of trading insults about who works for the better airline...managements everywhere must love this dribble.
Fly safe all.
Even with the apologists and head bobbers who are told what to post here the fact is the emperor has no clothes and knows it. So he sends out his minnions at the command of Bruce York to do his bidding. For those who don't know Bruce, he's the $400,000.00/ yr. senior lawyer who drives the representation and negotiating busses and decides when it's time to cram a contract down your throat. Don't like it? He sends in the $400,000.00/ yr. General Manager Jalmer Johnson; who tells your MEC and Negotiating Committee to take the deal and sell it, or your money get's cut off. Just wait til the AirTran guys find out he's starting to sandbag their negotiations. But keep sending those dues dollars!
The real fun starts when your MEC or committees dare to stand up to them. That's when Bruce starts his smear campaigns through the Representation office.
What we forget is that ALPA is not a union, it's an "association." Which means him with the most gold, makes the rules for everyone else. That's why the rules changed to give the big guys voting control over the little guys. Now there's only one really big guy left. And when he decides that he wants AirTran gone, Bruce will turn on them like he has on everyone else. Because it's not about protecting your job, it's about protecting his paycheck that you are making possible by paying your dues.
I say we stop paying dues until the senior management and elected officers take the same paycut as everyone else. Let's demand our MEC's pass resolutions to change the rules to require the elected National officers and General Manager to take a pay cut down to the level of a Regional F/O. If they want a bonus, they better get some work done on job security and pay. And stop sucking up to the DAL MEC. They're gonna run ALPA in two years anyway and get rid of all of us since we're in the way. Why put our money into their wallets?
05-20-2009, 06:00 PM
#268
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
ALPA is a very troubled organization. In the time since our current President has been in office, carriers have been lost, 3 representation elections have gone down in flames, JetBlue said "no thanks" and the list of failures goes on.
Even with the apologists and head bobbers who are told what to post here the fact is the emperor has no clothes and knows it. So he sends out his minnions at the command of Bruce York to do his bidding. For those who don't know Bruce, he's the $400,000.00/ yr. senior lawyer who drives the representation and negotiating busses and decides when it's time to cram a contract down your throat. Don't like it? He sends in the $400,000.00/ yr. General Manager Jalmer Johnson; who tells your MEC and Negotiating Committee to take the deal and sell it, or your money get's cut off. Just wait til the AirTran guys find out he's starting to sandbag their negotiations. But keep sending those dues dollars!
The real fun starts when your MEC or committees dare to stand up to them. That's when Bruce starts his smear campaigns through the Representation office.
What we forget is that ALPA is not a union, it's an "association." Which means him with the most gold, makes the rules for everyone else. That's why the rules changed to give the big guys voting control over the little guys. Now there's only one really big guy left. And when he decides that he wants AirTran gone, Bruce will turn on them like he has on everyone else. Because it's not about protecting your job, it's about protecting his paycheck that you are making possible by paying your dues.
I say we stop paying dues until the senior management and elected officers take the same paycut as everyone else. Let's demand our MEC's pass resolutions to change the rules to require the elected National officers and General Manager to take a pay cut down to the level of a Regional F/O. If they want a bonus, they better get some work done on job security and pay. And stop sucking up to the DAL MEC. They're gonna run ALPA in two years anyway and get rid of all of us since we're in the way. Why put our money into their wallets?
Even with the apologists and head bobbers who are told what to post here the fact is the emperor has no clothes and knows it. So he sends out his minnions at the command of Bruce York to do his bidding. For those who don't know Bruce, he's the $400,000.00/ yr. senior lawyer who drives the representation and negotiating busses and decides when it's time to cram a contract down your throat. Don't like it? He sends in the $400,000.00/ yr. General Manager Jalmer Johnson; who tells your MEC and Negotiating Committee to take the deal and sell it, or your money get's cut off. Just wait til the AirTran guys find out he's starting to sandbag their negotiations. But keep sending those dues dollars!
The real fun starts when your MEC or committees dare to stand up to them. That's when Bruce starts his smear campaigns through the Representation office.
What we forget is that ALPA is not a union, it's an "association." Which means him with the most gold, makes the rules for everyone else. That's why the rules changed to give the big guys voting control over the little guys. Now there's only one really big guy left. And when he decides that he wants AirTran gone, Bruce will turn on them like he has on everyone else. Because it's not about protecting your job, it's about protecting his paycheck that you are making possible by paying your dues.
I say we stop paying dues until the senior management and elected officers take the same paycut as everyone else. Let's demand our MEC's pass resolutions to change the rules to require the elected National officers and General Manager to take a pay cut down to the level of a Regional F/O. If they want a bonus, they better get some work done on job security and pay. And stop sucking up to the DAL MEC. They're gonna run ALPA in two years anyway and get rid of all of us since we're in the way. Why put our money into their wallets?
Right on brother.
I have seen the inside of ALPA National as a MEC member at a regional and your statements are right on.
ALPA National needs to change
or our profession will continue its downwade spiral. Midwest/Spirit/AirTran pilots better wake-up and hire a independent attorney to manage ALPA National and negotiations
05-20-2009, 06:08 PM
#269
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
Southwest Airlines to begin Milwaukee flights Nov. 1
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Updated: May. 20, 2009 3:12 p.m.
Southwest Airlines Co. will offer around eight to 10 daily departures from Milwaukee when it begins service at Mitchell International Airport on Nov. 1, Chairman, President and CEO Gary Kelly said Wednesday afternoon.
Kelly made his comments during a teleconference following the morning announcement that Southwest, the nation's largest low-fare carrier, was adding Milwaukee to its system.
Kelly declined to elaborate on possible destinations. Airport industry consultants say Southwest likely will fly from Milwaukee to leisure destinations such as Florida, Phoenix and Las Vegas, as well as Southwest hubs such as Kansas City; Nashville, Tenn.; and Baltimore.
Kelly also said Southwest likely will have 35 to 45 ground-based employees at Mitchell.
Southwest's entry into Milwaukee likely will create more choices, and lower ticket prices, for area fliers, industry consultants said. It also brings another formidable competitor for Midwest Airlines, Delta Air Lines, AirTran Airways and other carriers that fly from Mitchell.
Along with tapping into the Milwaukee area, service from Mitchell will help Southwest better serve the northern Chicago metropolitan area, Kelly said. Southwest serves Chicago from Midway Airport, on the city's south side. Kelly said Southwest will not fly from Milwaukee to Midway.
Midwest Airlines/Midwest Connect remains Mitchell's No. 1 carrier, with a 35.1% market share in March, according to airport data. Delta, which is integrating Northwest Airlines into its system, is No. 2, with 22.6% share. AirTran, another low-fare carrier, is No. 3, with 19.8% share.
A customer satisfaction survey, released Tuesday by the University of Michigan, rated Southwest with the highest score, 81 on a zero-to-100 scale. After Southwest, Continental Airlines scored 68; Delta, 64; American Airlines, 60; US Airways, 59; Northwest, 57; and United Airlines, 56. Midwest and AirTran were not included in the survey.
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Updated: May. 20, 2009 3:12 p.m.
Southwest Airlines Co. will offer around eight to 10 daily departures from Milwaukee when it begins service at Mitchell International Airport on Nov. 1, Chairman, President and CEO Gary Kelly said Wednesday afternoon.
Kelly made his comments during a teleconference following the morning announcement that Southwest, the nation's largest low-fare carrier, was adding Milwaukee to its system.
Kelly declined to elaborate on possible destinations. Airport industry consultants say Southwest likely will fly from Milwaukee to leisure destinations such as Florida, Phoenix and Las Vegas, as well as Southwest hubs such as Kansas City; Nashville, Tenn.; and Baltimore.
Kelly also said Southwest likely will have 35 to 45 ground-based employees at Mitchell.
Southwest's entry into Milwaukee likely will create more choices, and lower ticket prices, for area fliers, industry consultants said. It also brings another formidable competitor for Midwest Airlines, Delta Air Lines, AirTran Airways and other carriers that fly from Mitchell.
Along with tapping into the Milwaukee area, service from Mitchell will help Southwest better serve the northern Chicago metropolitan area, Kelly said. Southwest serves Chicago from Midway Airport, on the city's south side. Kelly said Southwest will not fly from Milwaukee to Midway.
Midwest Airlines/Midwest Connect remains Mitchell's No. 1 carrier, with a 35.1% market share in March, according to airport data. Delta, which is integrating Northwest Airlines into its system, is No. 2, with 22.6% share. AirTran, another low-fare carrier, is No. 3, with 19.8% share.
A customer satisfaction survey, released Tuesday by the University of Michigan, rated Southwest with the highest score, 81 on a zero-to-100 scale. After Southwest, Continental Airlines scored 68; Delta, 64; American Airlines, 60; US Airways, 59; Northwest, 57; and United Airlines, 56. Midwest and AirTran were not included in the survey.
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