acl65pilot

I find it interesting that DAL moved to the NWA gates in MKE. It is the oldest nastiest terminal in MKE.
Anyone know if it is a temporary move before we go to the D gates? I head we may share a few gates with MEH.

Invisible Man

I guess you and I have different definitions of the word forced.
Have you ever worked at an airline that filed for bankruptcy?
IM

Eric Stratton

I understand that you guys had to take cuts. The argument that I am making is that you chose to take some of those cuts in the form of loosening scope. You could have taken (deeper) cuts in other areas and not scope. If management wanted to outsource just the 747 would the outcome have been the same saying you had a gun to your head or would you guys said h ell no. I'm betting that you would have said no.

Once anyone has given up scope it hasn't ever come back. Pay is much easier to get back than scope.

Eric Stratton

Whether its LOA's or full blown section 6 you both had changes made to your contract and neither of you reeled in any scope. According to some delta pilots on here, Moak has even said that allowing for the regionals allows for you to have higher pay. So not much

You say "the only changes made to it were LOAs allowing the merger to be completed and ironing out some differences between the two" How would you characterize the 17% (I could be off by a % or 2) pay increase you and nwa get (over nwa's parity). I don't see how that has anything to do with allowing the merger to be completed or ironing out the differences. That sounds like headway towards regaining ground unless you had it in your last contract.

Sorry that you think it's a snide comment but maybe it's the truth and that sometimes hurts.

Invisible Man

I don’t think you do understand. Management attacked the entire pilot contract. NWA pilots took deep cuts across their entire contract. And on top of that Management wanted NEWCO (all Dc9 flying outsourced). The pilots wanted all 70+ seats flown at mainline. And they offered lower pay rates to do it. Management refused.

In the NWA bankruptcy, the Judge voted against all of the employee groups every time. Every time. So if it went to the BK judge it would have been NEWCO. So the pilots were forced to agree somewhere in the middle. (Compass)

Your argument that they should have given up cuts somewhere else in their contract to protect scope is easy to say. But having never gone through the BK process I don’t expect you understand. They were in the process of having their entire contract decimated. And management still wanted NEWCO. I guess they could have cut their pay to zero. And kept all the flying at mainline.

It is easy to just point your finger and say your pilot group caved on scope, end of story. But you would be wrong. A lot of unpopular decisions had to be made quickly. They tried to pick the best of the worst.

I think both mainline and regional pilots are to blame for the industries scope problems. And they need to work together against management to fix it. I don’t want to hijack this Midwest thread any more then I already have. I think they are getting screwed by their management and need this thread to get their word out.

IM

Mason32

That's the part that should have been taken to court by ALPA. Screw the arbitrators.... You can't tell me that if this went in front of a judge the decision would not have been vastly different. The very core principle of being a union worker is that it's a closed shop.... subcontracting your job away is a clear violation of that basic principle.

Way to go RAH...


Soon RAH will be operating 100 seat E190's on regional pay and work rules... they are already costing Delta pilot jobs on the shuttle routes; just wait until they get the 190's.

Yep, they had to keep a few otherwise they couldn't argue it was a scaleback and not just plain old outsourcing....

benairguitar23

I guarantee you...RAH is NOT getting the E190!!! That step would mean that the management and shareholders are ready to signal that RAH was going to go branded and step out of the Regional market. Trust me they have NO intention of doing that. Do you honestly think that RAH is ready to compete with SWA, JetBlue, etc. and not to mention the mainlines? All of RAH's flying comes from the mainline carriers anyway. Do you think that they would risk losing those routes by taking that step? And finally, one word, SCOPE! NO mainline carrier would allow a regional carrier to operate the E190 unless they put in the same luxury seats that go in the 777 and A380 which would mean they could only fit 50 people in there anyway. Ok rant is over Everyone have a good day.

MD80

Is this really a Delta/Republic deal?

If Republic buys out TPG then it would make Republic(53%) and Delta(47%). This could be the original formula to develope a low cost 100 seat national airline equal to Southwest, JetBlue or AirTran.

DALPA better be watching the developments at Midwest.

MD80

I agree.

ALPA needs to grow up and see the future they built for the airline pilot profession.

We need to change course!

MD80

I think their is a easy answer.

A pension should be paid as a percent of pay, "Defined Contribution". If you are flying a 70 seat aircraft your pension contribution would be smaller and as you move into bigger aircraft (higher pay) the pension contribution would grow.

I question if "Defined Benefit" plans will still be offered in future contracts or worth having after seeing the history at United.