Scoop

Guys,
We are arguing over tactics. We all agree, or at least I think we do, that Scope is a huge issue to our Pilot group. So lets start thinking strategically and the tactics will follow. I am pleased to see the level of passion the recent Scope relaxation has stirred up. Hopefully this along with our correspondence will give our Union leadership a clear idea of what we desire – no more Scope relief to the company and to eventually go on the offensive on the Scope issue.

Scoop

acl65pilot

I will give part of that to you, but the last two classes were canceled due to the fact that the contract just signed required 300 less pilots. There is no spin to that. Realize that for every 732 and 727 we parked over those years DAL was buying 50 seat jets to fly the lion's share of those routes, as they are doing today.


We both know that furlough protection is paper thin. I know the time line, and for Pete's sake I was giving people the short course. The point is that ASA, OH, SW, and AMR out of LAX were DCI. The next six years proved a total erosion for scope. I know the reason behind it, but it still does not change where we are, and where we need to go.




ASM's do not mean pilot jobs, departures do. It takes five RJ's and 50 pilots to do the job of one 767.
I understand that, but I was talking about DCI pre-merger and you know that. I was getting us to where we were prior to the merger. It is great that we have 2000 pilots more than we did on 9-11, but it took us acquiring the fifth largest airline to get there. That is sad.



I take issue with the last part. I do not like the last move of the 76 seat scope settlement. I do not care how it is spun, it allowed more 76 seat jets than Section 1 of the JPWA initially allowed. Plain and simple. I also and not one that is advocating a new union. I feel that by getting involved and not just voting "yes" for every thing that comes my way, I can effect change. I think that there are many positive points to ALPA, and I am a defender of the process, warts and all. I as well as many others will use the process to effect change.
I am glad you do. I know there are issues with taking 36 RJ's from DCI and putting them on mainline. It would allow over 100 more 76 seat jets. That clause will need to be changed to. Another effective for is to keep CPZ as a separate certificate and just have DAL seniority listed pilots fly em.

I applaud the MEC for getting the merger done. They did something that no other union could do. That does not give them a pass on future issues. The scope issue is one that will continue to bite us as long as we do not address it, and not use it as a bargaining chip. Lowering the scope limit to 70 seats is a start. CPZ on the list is the first start to that process. It also solves the representational issue that the MEC is now dealing with.

hoserpilot

Just thinking out loud here... I know we want less DCI and more a/c at mainline. We'd also like to fly those jets at mainline rates. Well, what exactly is a mainline rate?? What is the actual cost of a mainline pilot including benefits ect.. compared to a regional pilot? While the first couple years at skywest were tough in regards to pay, in my opinion, the remaining years I felt I was paid a decent wage/benefits for what I was doing. It did help that I was a making captain pay for 7 years. Did I want more? Of course I did. Was it possible? No, we were competing with Mesa, but thanks to the pilots of Comair my pay went up as we matched their contract dollar for dollar. We all love to stomp our feet and demand to get paid to fly a 76 seat RJ for the same rate as a NW DC-9 pilot. I stomp my feet too. Is it realistic in today's DCI mess we've created, probably not. That leaves us in a position that if we want the flying we need to accept the pay rates that go with those positions. If we did the flying in-house for the current rates would management still balk at the idea? I just don't know what I actually cost Delta to be on property compared to what my cost was at Skywest. Management talks about 'economies of scale'. Skywest management used that line every time we got more 70 and 76 a/c. This allowed us more pay than other regional pilots because our costs were spread out and we had larger revenue generating aircraft. Maybe its time Dalpa took a serious look at payrates and costs that would be acceptable to pilots and managment that brought those aircraft back. Allright, flame away...I deserve to be beaten for the blasphemy about lower pay!!!

acl65pilot

Your pay + about 10K a year for your insurance+ your retirement match. There is not much more to it except your sim training that is about the same as any other carrier.

acl65pilot

Add to that that our 7-12% margin that DAL pays each DCI carrier above the cost of the operation would more than make up what the differences in our compensation and theirs.

Wheels up

Ok. Please explain how allowing the outsourcing of 125 more narrow body airliners at a commuter contractor brings back 2000 furloughees (plus considering that they are almost all TWA and AA did their normal acquisition thing by buying an airline, then shutting it down).

Waiting breathlessly to be enlightened.

The APA's not giving scope anymore, they're taking it back. Allowing 25 70-seaters was a big mistake to begin with. At the very least that exception is going away. As for the 37 and 50 seat beercans, they can implode under the weight of their own inefficiency.

Anderson's union is being pointed to by the other airline management's as the new "standard" in scope give-aways.

80ktsClamp

Wheels up, you are exactly right.

I cannot fathom how slowplay could be coming from a mainline perspective. If he is, I hope he gets plenty of education from his fellow pilots on the implications of outsourcing and how "taking back scope" isn't a bad thing...

Superpilot92

Agree completely!! In shock that ANY pilot can think protecting scope is a bad thing or something to argue against!!

acl65pilot

I do not think he is arguing protecting scope, just our method.

He has a mainline perspective, just not one I agree with. Well educated on all the ALPA stuff, just on the other side of the fence on this one issue.

acl65pilot

I would love to hear the opinion on the latest developments and view point of CPZ et al from the FNWA MEC and LWC reps!