New Delta scope thread
02-28-2009, 06:51 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
There is a bottom line here. You (regional pilots) may not like it, but it's the reality of the situation. I was a regional guy for over seven years. The reason I left a regional to put myself on the bottom of a 7000+ (now 12000+) seniority list was because I didn't want to be a "contract" pilot. The reality is that the regionals provide a product to their customer (Delta, United, etc.). The customer makes the rules. Your company has basically been hired by Delta to provide a service. I wanted to work for the company that makes the rules and not the other way around. This IS the reality of the situation. You may not like it, but the regionals would not be in the position they are today without their customers (legacy carriers). It is what it is... I took the gamble to come to a major airline, and some pilots choose to chill out and hang at a contract carrier. I could have stayed at my regional carrier, but I don't want to put my career in that position. I knew the reality of the situation. From the day I got on at my regional, I knew I'd have to move on to a major to further my career and put myself in a good position. Will that change someday? Will the regionals be able to "write their own tickets" and rules? A couple have already tried and failed... Independence Air (ACA) and Expressjet are two that come to mind. Like it or not, the majors have control over their contractors. It's just the way it is.
As for seniority list integration, there's no way I'm going to let a regional pilot with two years of seniority jump in front of me at Delta! I've put in my time to get to this position... fifteen years of flying with half that at a regional to get where I am. I'm doing whatever it takes to secure this position I've earned... sorry.
As for seniority list integration, there's no way I'm going to let a regional pilot with two years of seniority jump in front of me at Delta! I've put in my time to get to this position... fifteen years of flying with half that at a regional to get where I am. I'm doing whatever it takes to secure this position I've earned... sorry.
02-28-2009, 07:23 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Here is a letter to the Air Tran pilots from a former DHL pilot and ALPA EVP....It spells out ALPA's problems very clearly....
Originally Posted by 1515greenlight
A friend of mine sent me a copy of this letter that was sent to the AirTran leadership before the vote. Someone there passed it on...interesting insight...the name and email addresses were blocked for obvious reasons.
In recent years it is difficult to remain optimistic when it comes to our profession. Retirement plans have been gutted and the cost for insurance benefits have been steadily transferred from our companies to us. W2’s have seen losses of 30-40-50% and even more. Furloughs have been constant and widespread. In the face of this attack on our profession one would think that ALPA would be the one union that aggressively defends our profession. But for that to happen all ALPA pilots, regardless of airline, aircraft, or payload would have to take a stand…together. That that has not happened, unfortunately, also defines ALPA’s single biggest challenge. For years ALPA has engaged in the politics and the practices of elitism, those flying for major carriers, particularly the large passenger carriers have become convinced that they are in some way better, therefore more deserving, than the pilots flying for carriers like Comair, Midwest Express, Air Wisconsin, or my carrier DHL. And until ALPA addresses this problem head-on ALPA will continue to spiral downward. Oh, it may survive for a few more years in some form but it will most likely be in some scaled down version that attempts to continue to serve the largest carriers interests, which will ultimately result in ALPA’s total failure. And I say total failure because ALPA’s arrogance will cause the pilots flying for the smaller carriers or those who find themselves on the outside looking in, to fight back hence leading go a labor war that will be to managements total glee. And to this point in time ALPA’s leadership has not demonstrated the political courage much less willingness, to take up this enormous challenge and tackle it head on. If anything the merger of Delta and Northwest will further exacerbate this issue, making the small carriers even less relevant within ALPA, which will accelerate ALPA’s demise.
Gentlemen I think I understand your pain, several years of frustrating negotiations with a management that has no real motivation to negotiate. The rank and file get restless and because you are on the point of the spear, as the elected leadership, they turn to you for answers and solutions. In that environment it becomes easy for the pilots to begin to see you as the problem rather than seeing management as the problem. And management is quite skilled when it comes to misinformation and ultimately stalling. But for what it is worth that describes negotiations and management relations on nearly every airline property, particularly the smaller carriers; and unless you have 4,000 or 5,000 pilots or more, we are small carriers.
The environment in which we live has been the result of a combination of things, and some of the events were set in motion over 30 years ago (i.e. deregulation). The bottom line is that labor has lost its clout on The Hill, in the boardrooms, in the crew lounges and even in the living rooms. Politically ALPA, like so many unions hitched their wagon to the Democratic party, which at one time was a wise and good choice, but no longer can that be said. Without belaboring you with the many lessons that I have learned let me just say this: This is your company, your pilot group and your decision, however I feel a certain sense of obligation to warn you that ALPA will prove to be the worst choice that you will ever make. I say this having served 8 years as an MEC Chairman and 5 plus years as an ALPA Executive Vice President and 20 years (and still counting) as an ALPA member. It will be because ALPA is not the organization that it once was, moreover it is a place where politics and big carrier power trumps the moral requirement to do what is right for the right reasons. The pilots at Air Tran will not be served well by ALPA.
I would love an opportunity to spend some time talking with you, face to face, in Atlanta on my dime. I feel passionate about what I am saying, but more importantly as a fellow professional pilot, one who cares deeply about this profession and about the people that fly the airplanes—and their families, I made the decision to take a chance and reach out to you and to hopefully cause you to explore your options. Please don’t get caught up in the moment and make a decision that I am certain will come back to haunt you. You do have options, and I believe much better options. And I believe that I might be able to help you explore those options. Of course at the end of the day the choice is yours, however I encourage you to give me a call or drop me an email. Like I said I will travel to Atlanta, in fact In would very much appreciate the opportunity to do so.
Originally Posted by 1515greenlight
A friend of mine sent me a copy of this letter that was sent to the AirTran leadership before the vote. Someone there passed it on...interesting insight...the name and email addresses were blocked for obvious reasons.
In recent years it is difficult to remain optimistic when it comes to our profession. Retirement plans have been gutted and the cost for insurance benefits have been steadily transferred from our companies to us. W2’s have seen losses of 30-40-50% and even more. Furloughs have been constant and widespread. In the face of this attack on our profession one would think that ALPA would be the one union that aggressively defends our profession. But for that to happen all ALPA pilots, regardless of airline, aircraft, or payload would have to take a stand…together. That that has not happened, unfortunately, also defines ALPA’s single biggest challenge. For years ALPA has engaged in the politics and the practices of elitism, those flying for major carriers, particularly the large passenger carriers have become convinced that they are in some way better, therefore more deserving, than the pilots flying for carriers like Comair, Midwest Express, Air Wisconsin, or my carrier DHL. And until ALPA addresses this problem head-on ALPA will continue to spiral downward. Oh, it may survive for a few more years in some form but it will most likely be in some scaled down version that attempts to continue to serve the largest carriers interests, which will ultimately result in ALPA’s total failure. And I say total failure because ALPA’s arrogance will cause the pilots flying for the smaller carriers or those who find themselves on the outside looking in, to fight back hence leading go a labor war that will be to managements total glee. And to this point in time ALPA’s leadership has not demonstrated the political courage much less willingness, to take up this enormous challenge and tackle it head on. If anything the merger of Delta and Northwest will further exacerbate this issue, making the small carriers even less relevant within ALPA, which will accelerate ALPA’s demise.
Gentlemen I think I understand your pain, several years of frustrating negotiations with a management that has no real motivation to negotiate. The rank and file get restless and because you are on the point of the spear, as the elected leadership, they turn to you for answers and solutions. In that environment it becomes easy for the pilots to begin to see you as the problem rather than seeing management as the problem. And management is quite skilled when it comes to misinformation and ultimately stalling. But for what it is worth that describes negotiations and management relations on nearly every airline property, particularly the smaller carriers; and unless you have 4,000 or 5,000 pilots or more, we are small carriers.
The environment in which we live has been the result of a combination of things, and some of the events were set in motion over 30 years ago (i.e. deregulation). The bottom line is that labor has lost its clout on The Hill, in the boardrooms, in the crew lounges and even in the living rooms. Politically ALPA, like so many unions hitched their wagon to the Democratic party, which at one time was a wise and good choice, but no longer can that be said. Without belaboring you with the many lessons that I have learned let me just say this: This is your company, your pilot group and your decision, however I feel a certain sense of obligation to warn you that ALPA will prove to be the worst choice that you will ever make. I say this having served 8 years as an MEC Chairman and 5 plus years as an ALPA Executive Vice President and 20 years (and still counting) as an ALPA member. It will be because ALPA is not the organization that it once was, moreover it is a place where politics and big carrier power trumps the moral requirement to do what is right for the right reasons. The pilots at Air Tran will not be served well by ALPA.
I would love an opportunity to spend some time talking with you, face to face, in Atlanta on my dime. I feel passionate about what I am saying, but more importantly as a fellow professional pilot, one who cares deeply about this profession and about the people that fly the airplanes—and their families, I made the decision to take a chance and reach out to you and to hopefully cause you to explore your options. Please don’t get caught up in the moment and make a decision that I am certain will come back to haunt you. You do have options, and I believe much better options. And I believe that I might be able to help you explore those options. Of course at the end of the day the choice is yours, however I encourage you to give me a call or drop me an email. Like I said I will travel to Atlanta, in fact In would very much appreciate the opportunity to do so.
02-28-2009, 07:50 PM
#103
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Here is a letter to the Air Tran pilots from a former DHL pilot and ALPA EVP....It spells out ALPA's problems very clearly....
Originally Posted by 1515greenlight
A friend of mine sent me a copy of this letter that was sent to the AirTran leadership before the vote. Someone there passed it on...interesting insight...the name and email addresses were blocked for obvious reasons.
In recent years it is difficult to remain optimistic when it comes to our profession. Retirement plans have been gutted and the cost for insurance benefits have been steadily transferred from our companies to us. W2’s have seen losses of 30-40-50% and even more. Furloughs have been constant and widespread. In the face of this attack on our profession one would think that ALPA would be the one union that aggressively defends our profession. But for that to happen all ALPA pilots, regardless of airline, aircraft, or payload would have to take a stand…together. That that has not happened, unfortunately, also defines ALPA’s single biggest challenge. For years ALPA has engaged in the politics and the practices of elitism, those flying for major carriers, particularly the large passenger carriers have become convinced that they are in some way better, therefore more deserving, than the pilots flying for carriers like Comair, Midwest Express, Air Wisconsin, or my carrier DHL. And until ALPA addresses this problem head-on ALPA will continue to spiral downward. Oh, it may survive for a few more years in some form but it will most likely be in some scaled down version that attempts to continue to serve the largest carriers interests, which will ultimately result in ALPA’s total failure. And I say total failure because ALPA’s arrogance will cause the pilots flying for the smaller carriers or those who find themselves on the outside looking in, to fight back hence leading go a labor war that will be to managements total glee. And to this point in time ALPA’s leadership has not demonstrated the political courage much less willingness, to take up this enormous challenge and tackle it head on. If anything the merger of Delta and Northwest will further exacerbate this issue, making the small carriers even less relevant within ALPA, which will accelerate ALPA’s demise.
Gentlemen I think I understand your pain, several years of frustrating negotiations with a management that has no real motivation to negotiate. The rank and file get restless and because you are on the point of the spear, as the elected leadership, they turn to you for answers and solutions. In that environment it becomes easy for the pilots to begin to see you as the problem rather than seeing management as the problem. And management is quite skilled when it comes to misinformation and ultimately stalling. But for what it is worth that describes negotiations and management relations on nearly every airline property, particularly the smaller carriers; and unless you have 4,000 or 5,000 pilots or more, we are small carriers.
The environment in which we live has been the result of a combination of things, and some of the events were set in motion over 30 years ago (i.e. deregulation). The bottom line is that labor has lost its clout on The Hill, in the boardrooms, in the crew lounges and even in the living rooms. Politically ALPA, like so many unions hitched their wagon to the Democratic party, which at one time was a wise and good choice, but no longer can that be said. Without belaboring you with the many lessons that I have learned let me just say this: This is your company, your pilot group and your decision, however I feel a certain sense of obligation to warn you that ALPA will prove to be the worst choice that you will ever make. I say this having served 8 years as an MEC Chairman and 5 plus years as an ALPA Executive Vice President and 20 years (and still counting) as an ALPA member. It will be because ALPA is not the organization that it once was, moreover it is a place where politics and big carrier power trumps the moral requirement to do what is right for the right reasons. The pilots at Air Tran will not be served well by ALPA.
I would love an opportunity to spend some time talking with you, face to face, in Atlanta on my dime. I feel passionate about what I am saying, but more importantly as a fellow professional pilot, one who cares deeply about this profession and about the people that fly the airplanes—and their families, I made the decision to take a chance and reach out to you and to hopefully cause you to explore your options. Please don’t get caught up in the moment and make a decision that I am certain will come back to haunt you. You do have options, and I believe much better options. And I believe that I might be able to help you explore those options. Of course at the end of the day the choice is yours, however I encourage you to give me a call or drop me an email. Like I said I will travel to Atlanta, in fact In would very much appreciate the opportunity to do so.
Originally Posted by 1515greenlight
A friend of mine sent me a copy of this letter that was sent to the AirTran leadership before the vote. Someone there passed it on...interesting insight...the name and email addresses were blocked for obvious reasons.
In recent years it is difficult to remain optimistic when it comes to our profession. Retirement plans have been gutted and the cost for insurance benefits have been steadily transferred from our companies to us. W2’s have seen losses of 30-40-50% and even more. Furloughs have been constant and widespread. In the face of this attack on our profession one would think that ALPA would be the one union that aggressively defends our profession. But for that to happen all ALPA pilots, regardless of airline, aircraft, or payload would have to take a stand…together. That that has not happened, unfortunately, also defines ALPA’s single biggest challenge. For years ALPA has engaged in the politics and the practices of elitism, those flying for major carriers, particularly the large passenger carriers have become convinced that they are in some way better, therefore more deserving, than the pilots flying for carriers like Comair, Midwest Express, Air Wisconsin, or my carrier DHL. And until ALPA addresses this problem head-on ALPA will continue to spiral downward. Oh, it may survive for a few more years in some form but it will most likely be in some scaled down version that attempts to continue to serve the largest carriers interests, which will ultimately result in ALPA’s total failure. And I say total failure because ALPA’s arrogance will cause the pilots flying for the smaller carriers or those who find themselves on the outside looking in, to fight back hence leading go a labor war that will be to managements total glee. And to this point in time ALPA’s leadership has not demonstrated the political courage much less willingness, to take up this enormous challenge and tackle it head on. If anything the merger of Delta and Northwest will further exacerbate this issue, making the small carriers even less relevant within ALPA, which will accelerate ALPA’s demise.
Gentlemen I think I understand your pain, several years of frustrating negotiations with a management that has no real motivation to negotiate. The rank and file get restless and because you are on the point of the spear, as the elected leadership, they turn to you for answers and solutions. In that environment it becomes easy for the pilots to begin to see you as the problem rather than seeing management as the problem. And management is quite skilled when it comes to misinformation and ultimately stalling. But for what it is worth that describes negotiations and management relations on nearly every airline property, particularly the smaller carriers; and unless you have 4,000 or 5,000 pilots or more, we are small carriers.
The environment in which we live has been the result of a combination of things, and some of the events were set in motion over 30 years ago (i.e. deregulation). The bottom line is that labor has lost its clout on The Hill, in the boardrooms, in the crew lounges and even in the living rooms. Politically ALPA, like so many unions hitched their wagon to the Democratic party, which at one time was a wise and good choice, but no longer can that be said. Without belaboring you with the many lessons that I have learned let me just say this: This is your company, your pilot group and your decision, however I feel a certain sense of obligation to warn you that ALPA will prove to be the worst choice that you will ever make. I say this having served 8 years as an MEC Chairman and 5 plus years as an ALPA Executive Vice President and 20 years (and still counting) as an ALPA member. It will be because ALPA is not the organization that it once was, moreover it is a place where politics and big carrier power trumps the moral requirement to do what is right for the right reasons. The pilots at Air Tran will not be served well by ALPA.
I would love an opportunity to spend some time talking with you, face to face, in Atlanta on my dime. I feel passionate about what I am saying, but more importantly as a fellow professional pilot, one who cares deeply about this profession and about the people that fly the airplanes—and their families, I made the decision to take a chance and reach out to you and to hopefully cause you to explore your options. Please don’t get caught up in the moment and make a decision that I am certain will come back to haunt you. You do have options, and I believe much better options. And I believe that I might be able to help you explore those options. Of course at the end of the day the choice is yours, however I encourage you to give me a call or drop me an email. Like I said I will travel to Atlanta, in fact In would very much appreciate the opportunity to do so.
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