Sputnik

Apologies for thread drift and not going back to read the prevoius 6400 pages but a question--

-- What's the latest on where new hires go? Still NYC?
-- How big is MSP? How hard is it to get there for junior guys?

Thanks

LandGreen2

PG:

so when are your dalpa buds going to post the industry contract comparison spreadsheet? depending on how it is spun; it will be a fantastic barometer for the pilot group indicating whether dalpa is focused on restoration or....not?

ps...plz remind the spreadsheet author(s) to include SWA, and Hawaiian's significant total compensation/benefit pkg! Thx

slowplay

The management guy has time to post your responses in multiple threads, but he never answered my question about Hawaiian being a Delta peer either...the one where Hawaiian's creditors were paid 100 cents on the dollar in their sham bankruptcy. Delta pilots were the second largest creditor in our trip through the courts and got 60 cents on the dollar. The largest creditor only got 46 cents...

As he does his seat math, he fails to mention that Hawaiian 767 pay is also their A330 pay. Delta pays the A330 at $205 per hour compared to HAL's $191 per hour. Of course, we could use his same seat cost "argument"...Hawaiian's 767ER's seat 264 people, Delta's 216. And our 757's in international configuration only seat 160 at the exact same payrate...is that seat cost argument still sounding good? No spin there... He also conveniently omits that Delta's 124 seat 737 also pays $174 per hour, and our 124 seat A319 pays $168/hr, and our 125 seat DC-9 pays $157 per hour...maybe we have entered the spin zone! Oh, and how many hours was the average Delta pilot compensated last year? 87 hours per month, nowhere near the guarantees...Hawaiian? Maybe it's time for the DPA forum to do some more Form 41 research.

I wonder how long you'll have to wait for for your answers. The DPA guys jumped on me for being gone 10 hours on Easter Sunday.

Carl Spackler

Now that's a figure I've not seen anywhere. Where can I independently verify that number?

Carl

PropNWA

Some newhires were sent to MSP in the most recent hiring wave. It really depends on your position within your newhire class as to where you end up.

As for the size of the MSP base, there are currently 1651 pilots spread among the 5 fleets based in MSP. That includes the A330, 7ER, A320, MD88/90 and the DC-9. The largest fleet is currently the A320 with 616 total pilots. The smallest is the A330 with 111 pilots.

Even if you don't get MSP initially, you would likely be able to bid into MSP within 6 months to a year if things remain as they currently stand. Hope that helps.

Carl Spackler

In YOUR seat math discussion you fail to mention the following:

Southwest $210 per hour, divided by 137 seats per aircraft = 1.53 per seat per hour.

That "seat math" yields the following for the 747: 1.53 per seat per hour X 403 seats per aircraft = $616.59 per hour.

I know, I know, Southwest is not one of our peers we can compare to.

Carl

slowplay

Careful, assistant groundskeeper, seats are about to be pulled from your aging whale in order to convert it to lie-flat. You don't want to get less of a payraise, do you?

Oh, what was the per seat payrate of a 747F vs a 747-200 under the NWA CBA? What was the per seat payrate of the 787 versus your 744?

It's not my argument, it's the management guy who works for DPA's argument. I think it's a silly argument.

80ktsClamp

Hawaiian, however, is an example of how not to get a contract gutted and also proof that the impending doom argument may very well have been a scarecrow. We'll never really know. Maybe I just need some more Lee Moak FACTS to convince me otherwise.

I agree that the seat argument is ridiculous, but to nitpick, remember our domestic configured (non-ETOPS as well as ETOPS) 767s also have 264 seats. The ETOPs domestic birds have traditionally been the ones that make the trek out to HI, thus there is a like comparison there. Honestly, I don't know what I'm getting at here other than saying I agree with you, slow.

As far as the 87 hours thing... say what? The higher range time flying guys I ever fly with typically get a bit over 80, with the largest consistent credit guys getting 90. In my FSU educated thick head, that does not bode well for an average of 87.

I had a pair of 110 hour months last year and still only averaged 82.

A guarantee of 75 hours would have had a 3-5 hour bump per month gain on most months. The little things can make big differences.

slowplay

I believe getting our reserve guarantee to ALV-5 with a floor of 75 should be a priority in our next contract. I would also like to eliminate differences between reserve and regular credit calculations when on a rotation. Those have been a couple of my pet peeves, but I'm just one of 12,000 opinions.

87 hours is the total active pilot pay hour average for 2010. That includes greenslips, training, vacation, credit...anything that is calculated and paid through the hourly rate. When we cut back in 2009 the average was just under 82.

Interestingly, one of the guys whining the loudest about ALPA FPL on the other forum had a heck of a summer last year...195 hours in July alone as a domestic A320 guy. I'd love to get some of that!

boog123

Disinterested