Fly4hire

So does DH'ing, which we do far more of than call in honest.

The former NW call im honest bought less than 50 (I'll dig up the exact number) seats last year in DTW out of 2000 pilots. The system is designed so it can not be abused, and was not.

It saves money in the fact there were far fewer cancellations with the program getting pilots to work on an occasional PS than pilots calling in sick when they realized they couldn't commute.

TANSTAAFL

Newbie here - be nice. This sure seem like a more spin free zone than the web boards

Do we have any official comments, either MEC or Co. regarding the Japan so-called Open Skies?

Other than divining the press statements by Anderson et al, do we have any flavor of the way the JAL deal is going?

Also curious for those more familiar with the system is the count pilots holding a preference page in iCrew a reasonable predictor of AE outcome?

Pineapple Guy

You're the third guy in two days who has justified PS as a cost savings because you compare it to the cost of an illegal sick call. Sick call is for when you're sick; not when you can't catch a flight.

Here's a BIGGER cost savings. Firing the guy who illegally calls in sick because he misses his commuter flight, and replace him with a guy who won't.

BTW, Delta's done it before, so I'd be really careful what all of you guys are admitting to on this public forum.

acl65pilot

Actually our policy is here guys this is what you must do. In the end it is the schedulers discretion. I have seen many guys get PSYed out of DFW. If they are short, they will find the seats. If not you will get sit at home and not get paid.

I agree, that giving that power to the scheduler make the policy non-uniform., but it is better than them not having it.

I like your policy better, but as the DALPA guys on here state, it is a policy and not contractual. I know that our new Vice-Chair in ATL is a commuter from TPA. A good commuting policy is a priority, as well as a few low no cost scheduling items. I would love to see your policy (at a min) become contractual. When I had to commute from DFW (not by choice) I would at time have to leave a day and a half prior to report because of all of the commuters. It is better now, but that just plain stinks.

acl65pilot

As with every thing. DAL probably has run the numbers and the cost of this policy is more expensive than what we are doing now. They almost never cancel a flight because of a commuter not showing up. A lot of guys live near our bases and have WS and GS in. IF there is not a reserve avail, they call one of these guys up for a turn. Works out real well for them.

This notion may change as guys like me who have blanked out and back white slips or green slips in are commuters, fly my sked and go home. They may also just up the SC reserves by a few a day.

As I see it, for some reason our guys on both sides of the fence see commuting about responsibility and honesty. If you do it, be responsible, and if you can make it be honest. I see the resistance of going to your old policy because they "may" see it as taking the responsibility out of it. Just a guess and I could be way wrong.

Also, when you look at former bases like MCO and DFW, the amount of commuters sends shivers down the spines of managers contemplating this policy. They look at this and figure that 95% of the tickets issued would be bumping revenue out of these two cities.
DFW still has 400-500 pilots and a ton of FA's. One gate agent told me that 3000 or so ppl still commute out of there. See we have mechanics, gate agents, rampers, et al that still commute from there. Heck even a VP or two does it. Most of the FA's, Mechanics etc are way senior to the pilots so they see this as a way for them to PSY all of the pilots from cities like this.

One more note, marketing will not stick more seats in a market for commuters. I have asked ppl why they don't and the simple answer is we do not have the lift nor the money to burn like that.

forgot to bid

59. Sleepless in Seattle (works just fine)
60. Sleepless in Atlanta (also works)
61. Blues Brothers

acl65pilot

The fact that the news page on DAL net, and a press statement were issued by DAL on Sat should tell you how important this is.
We are still in deep talks with the Japanese government about JAL, so I would not expect too much talk until the decision on that deal is made.
Nope, and you will not. If you know, you are under a NDA and will not even tell your pet lizard.
Heck no. Those are only AE's and not VD's or MD's. Simply put, you will not have any idea the way this bid is going to go. Bid what you want and want what you bid.

I have told our new Chair here in 44 that we need to see pilots with VD and MD preferences above us in a given category, PPL bidding it etc. I also told him that if we could get the company to agree to a set amount of backfill, etc, we should have a spot award. This last take a ton of computing power so probably is not likely.

In the end with 12000+ pilots with 12000+ wants, desires, and expectation, it is impossible to know where you will go. Only Number 1 know he will not move a little.

Fly4hire

They should also fire the guy who brags he's never called in sick in 10 years because all that means is he's more likely than not violated FAR's and come to work when he shouldn't have. BTW I'm not a commuter - all I'm saying it's happened, and it's not too hard to catch a legitimate cold and get a get a legit doctors note.

Back to the point at hand - sick call or not - you have fewer cancellations and a higher schedule completion rate buying the occasional PS to work. It may have been covered here before, but the program required a verified backup to work, and to be checked-in for your primary. There had to be a JS you were booked for on the primary. 10 day prior booking made that a lot easier. It basically said you show due diligence and prior planning to get to base on time and we'll make sure you get on a BU. Far more often than not if a pilot actually had the JS booked he got on. It also forced you to book an even earlier flight if your first choice was booked in order to use the program. It promoted the very responsible commuting you say is our responsibility.

We are about to have a lot more involuntarily commuters, and I hope we can manage to think outside the box a bit on making DAL more commuter friendly.

acl65pilot

F4H;

I agree, and we will see how many of the current ATL commuters bail from ATL to commute somewhere else. How a bid ends up may surprise many ppl.

Heck make it two flights that you stand by for then PSY. I do not care as long as there is an end game that gets you to work. In the DFW case, unless you have a late late show, it takes care of the same day commuters.

forgot to bid

Here is one observation and I had this backed up two weeks ago here in ATL. When a live-in-base pilot messes up their schedule, scheduling finds out 1 hour prior. If a commuter messes up scheduling usually has a few hours to rectify it. The only miss trip I ever got was as an RJ pilot when I read 1530 as 530pm, and I had a Captain misread a 1310 show as a 310pm show. I never made a mistake like that as a commuter, just as a live in base guy.

Why not open a DFW or MCO base again that, like all of the other bases, does one leg out to another base and does flying from there and then one leg back? Put A320s in there, DFW-MSP/SLC/MEM/DTW flying or MD90s and do DFW-SLC/MEM/CVG/NYC/ATL flying. I'd give up something to get that and I don't even live or ever plan on living in DFW. Its for the common good. I want senior people to acknowledge I exist and I am willing to help senior people get something they want.