Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-20-2014, 07:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
They sure spent a lot of money and collected a lot of dues for having no goals. Couldn't they have just had a yearly meeting and played dominoes if all they wanted to do was not make contract improvements. What they wanted was to negotiate a new seniority list based on Date of Hire and they failed. In that failure they cost their pilots billions of dollars. It is just amazing how the webboard folks can dismiss this type of failure while attacking DALPA as a failure. Sometimes you guys have shifting standards of success that have no consistent basis, just whatever confirms your own bias. If DALPA merely says their goals are exactly what happened then they are successes in your mind. How convenient.
USAPA has NOT abrogated an arbitration. They have delayed it. I know the webbboard lawyers are celebrating their temporary delays as some victory, but they are coming to a close. USAPA will soon not represent anyone in anything. They signed away their right to represent in the MOU and soon APA will represent the entire pilot group.
The APA has stated openly that they will not take on the DFR liabilities of USAPA. That means that there will be three separate merger committees, East, West, and APA. Actually, AMR management is also a party to the proceedings and they have openly stated that they will not take on the DFR liabilities of USAPA. The Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's dictate that all disputes amongst the parties will be solved by final and binding arbitration.
Therefore, my guess is the first dispute is what list will be integrated in with the American list. That dispute will be solved by an arbitrator (or panel of arbitrators) and they will decide whether or not the previous arbitration has been abrogated by USAPA's delays. My guess is that the East pilots will not be happy with that arbitration.
All complicated cases like this go their own way so there may be some other solution. In the end, the West pilots have their rights. As one of the federal judges said, a neutral arbitration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Therefore, whatever happens to the West pilots will be judged on the basis of what their rights were under the Nicolau award. If the Nicolau award is not used, then the West pilots will have to have seniority as good or better than the Nicolau award or someone will have to pay them money.
As I said before, neither the APA nor AMR management want to be writing those checks, so USAPA has merely delayed the arbitration, they have abrogated nothing. USAPA can't negotiate away the West's pilots rights no matter how much internet blather they spew. Delay is not victory. Instead, they just flushed away billions of dollars they will never get back. WINNING!!!!!!!!!
USAPA has NOT abrogated an arbitration. They have delayed it. I know the webbboard lawyers are celebrating their temporary delays as some victory, but they are coming to a close. USAPA will soon not represent anyone in anything. They signed away their right to represent in the MOU and soon APA will represent the entire pilot group.
The APA has stated openly that they will not take on the DFR liabilities of USAPA. That means that there will be three separate merger committees, East, West, and APA. Actually, AMR management is also a party to the proceedings and they have openly stated that they will not take on the DFR liabilities of USAPA. The Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's dictate that all disputes amongst the parties will be solved by final and binding arbitration.
Therefore, my guess is the first dispute is what list will be integrated in with the American list. That dispute will be solved by an arbitrator (or panel of arbitrators) and they will decide whether or not the previous arbitration has been abrogated by USAPA's delays. My guess is that the East pilots will not be happy with that arbitration.
All complicated cases like this go their own way so there may be some other solution. In the end, the West pilots have their rights. As one of the federal judges said, a neutral arbitration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Therefore, whatever happens to the West pilots will be judged on the basis of what their rights were under the Nicolau award. If the Nicolau award is not used, then the West pilots will have to have seniority as good or better than the Nicolau award or someone will have to pay them money.
As I said before, neither the APA nor AMR management want to be writing those checks, so USAPA has merely delayed the arbitration, they have abrogated nothing. USAPA can't negotiate away the West's pilots rights no matter how much internet blather they spew. Delay is not victory. Instead, they just flushed away billions of dollars they will never get back. WINNING!!!!!!!!!
This is not just about the list or the Nic.
It is also about capturing the attrition. They unfortunately, through their delay and legal spamming tactics, have won that battle.
As they have steadily retired senior pilots off the east list, they have replaced all those retirements with east pilots moving up into their vacated positions. Lots of movement, even hiring at the bottom.
Not so out west.
Not as simple as you try and make it Alfa.
08-20-2014, 07:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Okay, you can't even get off your butt and actually do something about it. Whining is not doing. Some people are actually fighting and some are just complaining from the sidelines. Who is the idiot?
08-20-2014, 07:25 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
08-20-2014, 07:28 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
Hi APC'rs. Has anyone had to re apply for Global Entry? I just got a new passport and it seems that I have a problem. I no longer have my PASSID number from when I signed up 5 years ago, (lost it) so I am unable to log in or start the application process. It seems I am toast without the PASSID number. Anybody have this happen? Or does anyone have a contact number where I might be able to ask the question? The number at GOES is just a busy signal. Figures! Thanks!
https://goes-app.cbp.dhs.gov/main/goes
08-20-2014, 07:31 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
You're coming in garbled and stupid Carl.
08-20-2014, 07:37 AM
Wind the clock beoch
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 437
Yes. For example they could call you at 1100 for a less-than-12 hour notice GS that reports at 2100.
My example previously assumed they had not given you anything by noon. But you are correct.
Correct.
Correct again.
Nope, we see it the exact same way. But there's always the possibility we're both screwed up! 
My example previously assumed they had not given you anything by noon. But you are correct.
08-20-2014, 07:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
Most pilots are not quite as awesome as I am.
Taking into consideration the capabilities I bring to the table and the responsibility I take when I fly and comparing that to other current comparable occupations and compensations; I am worth at least 25 - 30% percent more than what I am currently making.
The rest of you are still pretty awesome. As a group, maybe we could agree to negotiate for at least the lower end of that range.
Taking into consideration the capabilities I bring to the table and the responsibility I take when I fly and comparing that to other current comparable occupations and compensations; I am worth at least 25 - 30% percent more than what I am currently making.
The rest of you are still pretty awesome. As a group, maybe we could agree to negotiate for at least the lower end of that range.
08-20-2014, 07:49 AM
Wind the clock beoch
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 437
Most of the reps now in office have come into being since the merger. You continually badmouth them and say they aren't interested in restoration. How do you then know that your boys will fight for restoration? What makes your doughnut clowns more capable and worthy of battle?
You're coming in garbled and stupid Carl.
You're coming in garbled and stupid Carl.
And birthday cake. And hot dogs at the baseball game with the CEO. And...
But the most clueless is content with a Flight Standards lanyard and an invitation to the twice a year hoopla.
And my use of is versus are was intentional. Sorry sailing, I know this is over your head.
08-20-2014, 07:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Captain
Posts: 830
"I won't get involved or run for office because......."
But hey, I will complain about those guys who actually do the job and say they aren't "fighters, in bed with management, feeding at the trough etc."
Amazing how little accountability you have when you get to hide behind a webboard, as all you assumptions, theories and ideas are certainly correct.... Why? Because those people are unwilling to actually hang it out there and make themselves accountable to 12000 pilots and their families, and are unwilling to see if their assumptions, ideas and theories can actually carry the day.
No.. I think they will just hang out here, spew the same rhetoric and know that they are always right, because there is really no way to be proven wrong in that forum. You must actually take risk and try and implement an idea to have that happen.
08-20-2014, 08:02 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
That is not how USAPA sees it
This is not just about the list or the Nic.
It is also about capturing the attrition. They unfortunately, through their delay and legal spamming tactics, have won that battle.
As they have steadily retired senior pilots off the east list, they have replaced all those retirements with east pilots moving up into their vacated positions. Lots of movement, even hiring at the bottom.
Not so out west.
Not as simple as you try and make it Alfa.
This is not just about the list or the Nic.
It is also about capturing the attrition. They unfortunately, through their delay and legal spamming tactics, have won that battle.
As they have steadily retired senior pilots off the east list, they have replaced all those retirements with east pilots moving up into their vacated positions. Lots of movement, even hiring at the bottom.
Not so out west.
Not as simple as you try and make it Alfa.
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