Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: DAL
Posts: 623
Slowplay, I don't see you defending/spinning the Republic cutout on the other threads.
This could be the biggest loophole permitted in DALPA's loophole-laden history. I'm curious to see how they spin it.
This could be the biggest loophole permitted in DALPA's loophole-laden history. I'm curious to see how they spin it.
As best as I can tell, we made over 350 different back and forth proposals in this negotiation. Saying we accepted the first offer is not factually correct, it is the first time you have seen the whole deal, but don't confuse that for the first offer. Maybe you think the 351st offer will be the killer that gets you everything you desire.
The final negotiation came down to 1/5 of 1% of the value of our contract. Yes less than 0.02%. For a negotiation for a $30,000 car that would be like haggling over the last $50. So if you have made 350 offers in your car negotiations and you are now down to the last $50, what chance do you think you have of knocking another $5,000 off the price?
Vote anyway you want, but you are just kidding yourself if you think management is going to move in any fashion by voting no.
The final negotiation came down to 1/5 of 1% of the value of our contract. Yes less than 0.02%. For a negotiation for a $30,000 car that would be like haggling over the last $50. So if you have made 350 offers in your car negotiations and you are now down to the last $50, what chance do you think you have of knocking another $5,000 off the price?
Vote anyway you want, but you are just kidding yourself if you think management is going to move in any fashion by voting no.
I've been you alfa. I've been up to my eyeballs in data without having any time to interract with line pilots for a while. You can easily fall into a bunker mentality. That's where you and the rest of the MEC is right now. Not an insult, I just recognize it when I see it.
What you've stated in your entire post above (especially with what I've bolded) is that MEMRAT is really just a rubber stamp that's almost not worth the wasted time. I know you don't think that's what you've said, but you have. Here's why:
It does NOT matter if the NC has had 350 back and forths or 3,500. The NC and even the MEC are NOT the decision makers...the members are. It's not my opinion, it's the ALPA CBL's written language. O'Malley and all the reps have stated this over and over again. The decision makers have gotten this for the FIRST time. If we vote NO on this and send it back to the MEC, that will be the FIRST back and forth...not the 351st.
For you to state that we're kidding ourselves if we think management will move in any fashion to our NO vote, then why have MEMRAT? Do you not see by this statement that you're devaluing MEMRAT to the point of a membership rubber stamp of the MEC's actions? This is how a top-down organization behaves...not a bottom-up one?
Seriously alfa, you have to consider the damage of what you've just said here. Your position dictates that you revise these comments.
Carl
Heyas,
It's clear from Alfa's in depth knowledge and claims that he's NOT and ordinary line pilot, but a MEC committee member (or chairman?) that has intimate details.
Keep this in mind...he doesnt work for the line pilots, nor the rep. We can't directly fire him, NOR can the reps.
The word is that after the initial presentation, the vote was 9 against, including at least one in ATL. Those 9 represented a MAJORITY of the roll call votes, which would have sunk the TA.
To think there were not political machinations that occured to switch those 4 votes is being naive.
Nu
It's clear from Alfa's in depth knowledge and claims that he's NOT and ordinary line pilot, but a MEC committee member (or chairman?) that has intimate details.
Keep this in mind...he doesnt work for the line pilots, nor the rep. We can't directly fire him, NOR can the reps.
The word is that after the initial presentation, the vote was 9 against, including at least one in ATL. Those 9 represented a MAJORITY of the roll call votes, which would have sunk the TA.
To think there were not political machinations that occured to switch those 4 votes is being naive.
Nu
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Because this deal hinges on economics.
Your "us versus them" divisive counter point begins and ends with "if there are more of us and less of them it is a win." However, you do not address the fact this hinges on Re - fleeting Delta Connection through a much larger investment in that product for a much more economically relevant jet.
Your "us versus them" divisive counter point begins and ends with "if there are more of us and less of them it is a win." However, you do not address the fact this hinges on Re - fleeting Delta Connection through a much larger investment in that product for a much more economically relevant jet.
The DCI refleeting option is a less expensive option than eating the sunk costs, engine maintenance and aircraft overhaul expense associated with management's option of going without us. That was the opportunity that created this deal. Delta will invest in DCI one way or another, the question is whether or not Delta pilots will benefit from that investment.
Is that what you're looking for?
Oh, I've been keeping up. Put on your logic hat... It makes no sense to negotiate an aircraft lease swap then suddenly dump the pilots on the receiver (after telling everybody you weren't). Way too much risk in that one. Delta doesn't want the pilots, do they? Nope.
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Ahh, I think I get it now.
The DCI refleeting option is a less expensive option than eating the sunk costs, engine maintenance and aircraft overhaul expense associated with management's option of going without us. That was the opportunity that created this deal. Delta will invest in DCI one way or another, the question is whether or not Delta pilots will benefit from that investment.
Is that what you're looking for?
The DCI refleeting option is a less expensive option than eating the sunk costs, engine maintenance and aircraft overhaul expense associated with management's option of going without us. That was the opportunity that created this deal. Delta will invest in DCI one way or another, the question is whether or not Delta pilots will benefit from that investment.
Is that what you're looking for?
Edited my post out of appreciation for yours.
Could you elaborate on how the 717 works for Delta when it does not work for Southwest ?
How great a threat should / would the C Series be to our 717 fleet ?
I think it would be cheaper for DAL to get the planes with the pilots.
If you can provide an official defensible source that has officially stated that the 717 pilots are not coming with the planes, I'm all ears.
Seriously? Cheaper with the pilots? How so?
Our TA is COST NEUTRAL to Delta Air Lines.
Carl
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
[The C-Series]...could fit into a global alliance as (a low-cost carrier) component to a broader North American strategy for a SkyTeam or Star or one world,"
"I still think that what we're going to see is a worldview where a low-cost carrier can participate in domestic alliances in 2015, and that there'll be a need for that product here," he said.
"I still think that what we're going to see is a worldview where a low-cost carrier can participate in domestic alliances in 2015, and that there'll be a need for that product here," he said.
The exemption [from complying with the intent of the PWA] will apply to Chautauqua Airlines and to Shuttle America Corporation even if an affiliate of either such carrier operates aircraft other than permitted aircraft types that do not otherwise meet the requirements of Section 1 D. 2.
- Our PWA has language to prohibit a DCI carrier to fly large jets.
- Republic aquires Frontier and operates A320s, orders the C-Series.
- Many Delta pilot call their reps and say it violates the PWA.
- The DALPA lawyer responds that the PWA language isn't enforceable as written.
- My rep promises to make sure the next contract is better.
- New language in TA prohibits operations like Republic from operating larger jets.
- Exemption added to TA specifically permits Republic (Chautaqua, Shuttle America) to operate large jets contrary to news language.
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 05-26-2012 at 10:19 AM. Reason: extraneous salutation removed
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