Latest on Midwest Airlines
02-05-2009, 07:37 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
I hope so too. I still think that the management at both airlines has something much worse planned and the 170s were just a rouse to keep both groups occupied.
02-06-2009, 05:00 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
02-10-2009, 07:26 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
Disposition of the MEH assets and/or personnel is unknown at this point.
Nu
02-10-2009, 12:35 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 306
Here is whats new
Midwest Airlines Pilots Apply for Federal Mediation
As many of you know, we served our Section 6 notice on management at the end of August, 2008 (days after management served their notice upon us). We began negotiating with management in October and made good progress on the “administrative” sections of our contract (such as the Grievance, System Board, Training, and Dues Check Off sections) during the remainder of 2008. Throughout those discussions, management recognized our legal right to amend our contract and engaged in good, substantive discussions that either resulted in tentative agreements or sections that only have a few economic items remaining open.
At management’s urging, we spent significant time in late November and early December internally preparing a comprehensive proposal addressing the remaining open items pertaining to compensation, scheduling, retirement, and insurance. We presented this document to management on December 11, 2008, and offered to meet with them at anytime to answer questions that would enable management to create a meaningful counterproposal. Despite our offers of assistance, management instead returned to the bargaining table on January 6, 2009, with a costing of our proposal. However, management failed to offer a counterproposal to both our comprehensive document and our scope proposal during this meeting.
When we reviewed management’s costing of our proposal, flaws in this costing revealed management’s clear misunderstanding of major portions of our proposal (in fact, the foundation of our whole scheduling section). It also signaled management’s intent to hold firm on their demands for full concessions as had been voiced last July. When the ALPA team expressed our concerns about an ability to reach an agreement given management’s positions, we were quickly assured that management understood our needs and would work on a revised compensation proposal. When queried later about the status of that compensation proposal, the management consultants advised us that it was “being run up the flagpole.”
Apparently, running something up the flagpole is a euphemism for delaying because at our negotiating session on January 27, management advised us that they:
1. had no counterproposal for us;
2. required full concessions from us;
3. would not respond to our scheduling proposals unless they were either zero-cost items or a cost savings; and
4. would only address our scope concerns if we were “within the zone” on their concessionary demands.
Adding insult to injury, management advised us that they would only meet with us in February if we were willing to provide them with a proposal addressing their concessions.
This left your MEC and Negotiating Committee with only one option – to file for mediation, which we did earlier today. Clearly, there will be questions about mediation and what this means for the Midwest pilots, which will be answered in the days and weeks ahead of us. But, for the time being, we would like to take this opportunity to answer some of the main questions on everyone’s minds:
Question: What does it mean to “file for mediation?”
Answer: It means that we have reached the point in our direct face-to-face talks with management’s representatives where we believe that no further progress can be made without the assistance of a federal mediator. We believe that the only way the process of reaching an agreement can move forward is by having another party, a party with no stake in the game either way, at the table. Federal mediators are trained in moving negotiations forward and getting both parties to a point where a deal is achievable.
Question: Why did we file now?
Answer: As stated above, we have been told in no uncertain terms that management has no intention of bargaining with us. Despite what you may have been told on the line about the union doing this or the other, we have remained fully engaged in our attempts to reach an agreement. Our meeting with management at the end of January left us with no doubt as to our position. We were told that management would not respond to our initial comprehensive proposal– not now, not ever. We were instead instructed by them to go back to work and submit a new proposal containing the full amount of the concessions they originally demanded last summer prior to the start of our Section 6 negotiations. Clearly, we need to change the basic dynamic at the table and the only way to do that is to file for mediation.
Question: What happens next?
Answer: First, the director of Mediation Services at the NMB will assign a mediator to the Midwest negotiations. The NMB attempts to assign a mediator who will meet with the parties for the first time within 45 days from the filing date. The mediator will then meet with each side and be briefed on the current positions, the process to date and if appropriate gather information related to the underlying facts of the negotiations. The mediator then sets up a schedule for negotiations that is dependant upon his or her schedule, but can be anywhere from a few days to a few weeks each month. At the negotiating sessions, the mediator will actively facilitate and guide the talks with a goal of bringing the parties closer together. This phase of the process has no time limit and will continue so long as the mediator feels progress is being made.
We will distribute additional information shortly that more fully explains the RLA’s provisions regarding mediation and the following phases. Remember, reaching a deal has always been and still remains our primary goal. We reaffirm our commitment to you to obtain a contract we can live with, one that offers some level of security and livability. Not the low-wage, no-quality-of-life job that that management thinks you deserve. Not a job that could once again be held hostage whenever management so chooses.
It is our intent to communicate important information to you frequently. To that end, the P2P Committee will be proactive in contacting individual pilots to answer questions and hear concerns. FastReads will include timely updates and will be published as developments warrant. All-pilot conference calls have proven to be an excellent vehicle for information sharing, as have mailings to pilots' homes. All of these tools will be used to ensure that Midwest pilots have the facts about our contract negotiations.
That is our commitment to you. In turn, we are counting on you to take an active role in staying informed by reading the materials, participating on conference calls, and attending events such as rallies and Family Awareness events; giving us your feedback; and supporting your MEC and your Negotiating Committee.
As many of you know, we served our Section 6 notice on management at the end of August, 2008 (days after management served their notice upon us). We began negotiating with management in October and made good progress on the “administrative” sections of our contract (such as the Grievance, System Board, Training, and Dues Check Off sections) during the remainder of 2008. Throughout those discussions, management recognized our legal right to amend our contract and engaged in good, substantive discussions that either resulted in tentative agreements or sections that only have a few economic items remaining open.
At management’s urging, we spent significant time in late November and early December internally preparing a comprehensive proposal addressing the remaining open items pertaining to compensation, scheduling, retirement, and insurance. We presented this document to management on December 11, 2008, and offered to meet with them at anytime to answer questions that would enable management to create a meaningful counterproposal. Despite our offers of assistance, management instead returned to the bargaining table on January 6, 2009, with a costing of our proposal. However, management failed to offer a counterproposal to both our comprehensive document and our scope proposal during this meeting.
When we reviewed management’s costing of our proposal, flaws in this costing revealed management’s clear misunderstanding of major portions of our proposal (in fact, the foundation of our whole scheduling section). It also signaled management’s intent to hold firm on their demands for full concessions as had been voiced last July. When the ALPA team expressed our concerns about an ability to reach an agreement given management’s positions, we were quickly assured that management understood our needs and would work on a revised compensation proposal. When queried later about the status of that compensation proposal, the management consultants advised us that it was “being run up the flagpole.”
Apparently, running something up the flagpole is a euphemism for delaying because at our negotiating session on January 27, management advised us that they:
1. had no counterproposal for us;
2. required full concessions from us;
3. would not respond to our scheduling proposals unless they were either zero-cost items or a cost savings; and
4. would only address our scope concerns if we were “within the zone” on their concessionary demands.
Adding insult to injury, management advised us that they would only meet with us in February if we were willing to provide them with a proposal addressing their concessions.
This left your MEC and Negotiating Committee with only one option – to file for mediation, which we did earlier today. Clearly, there will be questions about mediation and what this means for the Midwest pilots, which will be answered in the days and weeks ahead of us. But, for the time being, we would like to take this opportunity to answer some of the main questions on everyone’s minds:
Question: What does it mean to “file for mediation?”
Answer: It means that we have reached the point in our direct face-to-face talks with management’s representatives where we believe that no further progress can be made without the assistance of a federal mediator. We believe that the only way the process of reaching an agreement can move forward is by having another party, a party with no stake in the game either way, at the table. Federal mediators are trained in moving negotiations forward and getting both parties to a point where a deal is achievable.
Question: Why did we file now?
Answer: As stated above, we have been told in no uncertain terms that management has no intention of bargaining with us. Despite what you may have been told on the line about the union doing this or the other, we have remained fully engaged in our attempts to reach an agreement. Our meeting with management at the end of January left us with no doubt as to our position. We were told that management would not respond to our initial comprehensive proposal– not now, not ever. We were instead instructed by them to go back to work and submit a new proposal containing the full amount of the concessions they originally demanded last summer prior to the start of our Section 6 negotiations. Clearly, we need to change the basic dynamic at the table and the only way to do that is to file for mediation.
Question: What happens next?
Answer: First, the director of Mediation Services at the NMB will assign a mediator to the Midwest negotiations. The NMB attempts to assign a mediator who will meet with the parties for the first time within 45 days from the filing date. The mediator will then meet with each side and be briefed on the current positions, the process to date and if appropriate gather information related to the underlying facts of the negotiations. The mediator then sets up a schedule for negotiations that is dependant upon his or her schedule, but can be anywhere from a few days to a few weeks each month. At the negotiating sessions, the mediator will actively facilitate and guide the talks with a goal of bringing the parties closer together. This phase of the process has no time limit and will continue so long as the mediator feels progress is being made.
We will distribute additional information shortly that more fully explains the RLA’s provisions regarding mediation and the following phases. Remember, reaching a deal has always been and still remains our primary goal. We reaffirm our commitment to you to obtain a contract we can live with, one that offers some level of security and livability. Not the low-wage, no-quality-of-life job that that management thinks you deserve. Not a job that could once again be held hostage whenever management so chooses.
It is our intent to communicate important information to you frequently. To that end, the P2P Committee will be proactive in contacting individual pilots to answer questions and hear concerns. FastReads will include timely updates and will be published as developments warrant. All-pilot conference calls have proven to be an excellent vehicle for information sharing, as have mailings to pilots' homes. All of these tools will be used to ensure that Midwest pilots have the facts about our contract negotiations.
That is our commitment to you. In turn, we are counting on you to take an active role in staying informed by reading the materials, participating on conference calls, and attending events such as rallies and Family Awareness events; giving us your feedback; and supporting your MEC and your Negotiating Committee.
02-10-2009, 01:00 PM
#47
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
CHQ's contract was never with AA it was with TWA. When AMR purchased TWA they took the contract with them.
02-10-2009, 01:19 PM
#48
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
I think the only reason this charade that is Midwest Airlines is still flying is because Northwest has allowed it too.
What could an E-190 product offer to a passenger other than a different paint job on the outside of the airplane?
There are very few under utilized aiports and even though you are excited to get more airplanes and fly a 190 the chances of you filling an e-190 with the competition that will be there....
02-10-2009, 03:16 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
From what I heard, the ramp up in the AirTran operation has forced a resolution. The REP operation is being eliminated. All Midwest flights to be operated by DAL/NWA/DCI, with frequencies being increased to meet the competition.
Disposition of the MEH assets and/or personnel is unknown at this point.
Nu
Disposition of the MEH assets and/or personnel is unknown at this point.
Nu
Should be a good battle between Airtran and Delta. Delta should have the advantage after getting the Midwest gates and slots. I mean, they paid top dollar for Midwest.
The questions is can Delta match Airtrans costs per mile.
May the best airline win.
02-10-2009, 04:46 PM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 30
Should be a good battle between Airtran and Delta. Delta should have the advantage after getting the Midwest gates and slots. I mean, they paid top dollar for Midwest.
What about the Midwest pilots that are on the street ???????
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