John Pennekamp

It sounds like we actually have a lot more in common than uncommon.

And I really DON'T have an ax to grind or a negative outlook. What I have is a REALISTIC outlook. And I'm contending that the Delta MEC will make the same mistake they have made over, and over, and over. They will build a bigger wall instead of building a bridge.

I hope I'm wrong.

DAL4EVER

Did your parents ignore you as a child? Why do you always have such an adversarial tone to DAL?

I am an ex regional pilot (hired in 2001) and worked at the regionals during furlough. The fact is that the demographic was changing at DAL. True, the majority prior to the last hiring wave were military but it was definitely more civilian than military over the past two years. If that wasn't enough, the DAL pilot demographic changed completely when we got 5000 fire breathing NWA guys on the list. They have always been aggressive at defending their turf (Compass aside) and I look for the group as whole to actively defend our flying.

Our list is comprised of many guys who were hired in the '90-'92 timeframe as well as those who were hired from '96-'01. All were dramatically affected by furloughs or big displacements. Couple that with the NWA guys and the majority of pilots know what's at stake if we give up more flying. Before questioning the veracity or integrity of certain pilots posting their views, I would ask you what you do to further the profession aside from griping about every "perceived wrong" that's done to you?

acl65pilot

No comment. As in I would not try to tell you what might be the thoughts of management. Plus, there are legal ramifications to all of this. You know that.

Tinpusher007

So, my question in all this is...Say you guys get CPZ stapled on to your list. Is it then only that portion (CPZ's 36 E175's) that the DL pilot group will fly? Or would it be that ALL 76 seat flying and up be done at DL? And if the latter, what about the CR9's that DL owns as well as the contracts it has with other DCI carriers?

DAL4EVER

Just the Compass E175s. But that would be the most positive start to recapturing that flying that the industry has seen since '93.

Lighteningspeed

I am all for recapturing the 76 seat RJ flying into the DAL since my future depends on it but from a purely business standpoint, it seems to me the DAL management would look at the potential cost aspect of stapling all of Compass pilots into the DAL list versus the merging of Compass with Comair and spin it off to a third party. I know some senior NWA CAs have told me that they tried to staple Mesaba pilots and Compass pilots to the NWA list back in 2007 but this was rejected by both the majority of NWA pilots and the management for whatever reason.

If the economy looks like it would get worse during the summer of 2009 and DAL looks like it would be losing money, wouldn't it make more sense to spin off Compass and raise quick cash to fatten the asset side of the balance sheet and straight out furlough existing DAL list from the bottom? Seems to me that would wind up costing DAL less. I ran this idea to a gal friend of mine who is in aviation law and she seems to agree with me here. Not saying she is the guru of anything.

acl65pilot

Well there are a few things that make the company not want it. Our MEC shares some of them. One is the financial exposure to having all of the leases attached to the DAL credit rating. I personally do not agree with this one, but it is one that both sides have stated.

Like DAL said, it would be there flying only. It is a start and we can go from there. See CPZ shares our MEC, but with out any voting rights. It is truly the best shot as we are the ones that will negotiate their contract, or it will be out MEC that approves the TA. There is a lot to that.

I think that people are realizing that keeping these jets off of the mainline list is the biggest mistake that we have made. I do not think we need to give anything up to do this. It gives the company flexibility that it needs for the mainline flying.

Tinpusher007

Lighteningspeed, would that even be doable? Hasn't DL been trying to "spin off" Comair for years now with no takers? I think the ultimate compromise might be the better option for one very important reason. It will give the company the ultimate flexibility to fly whatever aircraft the market demands on a given route without having to adhere to scope language from ALPA.

This will also serve to ease the tension between labor and management. Now I know management could ultimately care less about being overly friendly with pilots. However, it could make life easier for both sides if one major issue is out of the way. And the current management at DL seems willing and capable of thinking out of the box this time around.

DAL4EVER

The problem with spinning the flying off is that you have to find a buyer with access to the capital to do that. Then the buyer will insist like SkyWest did that they are given assurances that a certain percentage of flying remain with them for a number of years to make the deal doable. In a time where there are rampant DCI quality issues and little to no access to capital, using one's own capital to fund this may be impossible. This could be a case where the economy works to our advantage. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Increased mainline jobs is a win-win for everyone.

Tinpusher007

I agree DAL...that was my point as well. I don't think a spin off would be successful. I also think that DL wants to figure out what the game plan is for 100 seat aircraft. I think they are taking a wait and see look at the C-Series, as they clearly seem unimpressed with the E190. Perhaps they don't want to invest too heavily in the E175 if they don't have plans for the E190.