DALMD88FO

As I've said before, I've NEVER heard this statement at Delta airlines. I'm a former Army pilot. If my buddies want to come to Delta they fly whatever happens to be the entry level aircraft. I tell you what I have heard lately. A lot of moaning from new hires about getting bumped down to fly the lowly Mad Dog. They got a little spoiled flying a 767 as an entry level aircraft.

Bucking Bar

Yeah, well, you understand, don't you? The 767 IS a nice aircraft when transitioning in from another airliner, unless that jet was an L1011. The 767 Captains are still "moaning" about the loss of that jet.

FWIW: I've heard the argument that military pilots should nat have to start their careers in RJ's. But the last time I heard that story, "RJs" did not weigh more than 80,000lbs and fly trans-con with a First Class section.

Unlike ex-military pilots, civilian pilots have much more choice about when they come to a major airline. They can quit with two weeks notice or stay until they reach age 65. Most figure out pay wise how long it will take to come up to parity with their former "regional" Captain job. The 767 made that easy math in favor of mainline.

With the confluence of factors from the economy to the SLI, most took an eight to ten year step backwards if they want to be based in Atlanta. When my Captains "moan" I understand, going backwards is not pleasant.

acl65pilot

I have not heard anyone complain. It is still a job sir!

I will be sitting on the 767 enjoying my transcons. It is a great jet. Even better if you live in base!

acl65pilot

Well, I am glad that you have not heard that. I have and a couple of times. So have a few buddies of mine. I as you just hope it is very isolated.

Bucking Bar

Don't rub it in.

Some of us know we are a hiccup away from "poles and ladders" followed by a shower of de-icing fluid from the leaky windows. But at least the throttles surge, the brakes are broke, and the FMC don't.

It's heresy, but the MD88 is no where near the airplane a CRJ700 is.

INCOMING! CLUNK ... ZIP

(flame suit zipped and sand bags put against the door of the bunker)

Dougdrvr

How dare you malign such a faithful stalwart It's like you've just insulted my dog. Sure you have to finese the A/Ts a bit (but that comes with knowing what they are going to do before they do it), auto brakes are the greatest thing since the turbine engine (even if you only use them twice a year) and the FMS, I found to be a heck of lot more user friendly than the MD11 But the best thing it has over the CRJ is it pays twice as much.

Bucking Bar

Maybe in your seat.

Since you brought up dogs. Two rednecks were sitting on their porch one summer afternoon while the dog lay in the corner licking his nuts. One redneck says, "I wish I could do that." The other replies, "That Dawg 'll bite you." Best advice ever for the MD88.

I'll bring the trash bag up when I back from finding a pole that hasn't been cut up to make wands for the rampers.

alfaromeo

ACL, not to counteract your sentiments with facts, but:

The junior pilots at Delta have, over the last 15 years, gotten much more compensation in relation to senior pilots. That came through elimination of the B-Scale and increases in the percentages of Captain's pay. I keep hearing about eating our young, but mostly I see a bunch of young pilots that come in with lots of needs and expect everyone to deliver for them.

I keep hearing about how the Northwest pilots will save the Delta pilots with their toughness. Why then have Delta pilots led Northwest in compensation for the vast majority of the last 25 years? Why did Northwest have to get pulled UP to our contract after we both went through bankruptcy at the same time? They may be tougher, but we negotiate better contracts.

As for the squadron buddies bull, sorry but that is just part of the civilian/military crap. It seems that the civilian side constantly wants to stoke this fire and revel in their victimhood. Go ahead, you are a victim and everyone is really out to get you, you are not paranoid. How about understanding that most people in leadership positions in the union haven't been in the military for 10 to 20 years and don't have but one or two friends that are left in the military, and most of them are high ranking officers now and don't want to fly commercial. So explain really slowly to me about protecting squadron buddies again, how does that really work?

This whole scope issue has changed primarily in the context of a mainline business that was failing and falling into bankruptcy. Negotiating with a gun against your head isn't really negotiating, you are trying to survive. Without some concessions in scope in bankruptcy, then our contract would have been rejected. I can say that with some confidence since every contract that went to the judge was rejected. 100% that's a pretty good batting average for airline management. With a rejected contract you would lose all contract protections. All of them.

So you want to think the choice was:

1. Be tough and accept no scope changes or
2. Be weak and cave on scope

In the real world these were the choices:

1. Accept changes in scope and try to manage the process or
2. Have no scope at all

What you really want, is a magic fairy to come and get rid of all small jets and force management to buy a lot of new bigger jets so you can upgrade. If you can show me an example where you can force this outcome then let us know how that works. The marketplace has changed and you either adapt to the changes or you go out of business.

At some point, there will be fewer airlines and then fewer small jets. That process is happening right now as Delta is getting a market share that will require more large jets and less regional jets. That is part of the reason the Delta MEC supported this deal. When this natural consolidation process plays out to its conclusion then the RJ business will be much smaller. Until then, your best bet is to get flow up and flow down arrangements. Hoping to force any airline to swallow up their regional partners is wasted time. If management wants to do that then they will, if they don't they won't.

The problem that you will face if that happens is the continual pressure of the RJ pilots to get pay raises that are greater than the mainline airplanes. It is the same process that occurred for the B-Scale and Express at Delta. That is why the junior pilots have done much better than senior pilots. In fact, the B-Scalers from the 80's and 90's had to eat the B-Scale and then had to eat getting rid of the B-Scale. So, if you get your wish, then you can pretty much expect to eat the process of bringing up their pay rates to the mainline scale. If you think that you can just raise their rates and not pay for it then you are still not operating in the real world. I am sure you think that once this process is complete then you will have solved the issue for good. In my experience, once you stomp out one fire, there is another one just up ahead.

Everyone wants a magic bullet or an easy solution. Be tough, hold the line, take it back. Just a bunch of worthless phrases uttered by people that are frustrated with the fact that they can't control the rest of the world as easily as they can control their aircraft.

Bucking Bar

Continental and American avoided bankruptcy and kept most of their scope.

alfaromeo

And both airlines are losing more mainline flying now than Delta is, explain that.