Delta Payscale For Crj900?
02-03-2009, 12:42 PM
#251
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Ok, I talked to a friend of mine in NWA/Delta management to get some insight. Actually, there are too many 70+ seat RJ's in the delta system under the current scope contract. They can either park them in the desert or they can bring them to mainline. It sounds like delta would like to bring the compass jets to mainline to avoid a scope battle with the mainline pilots. At that point he expects that delta will exercise the 900 options to replace more 200's.
02-03-2009, 12:45 PM
#252
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Ok, I talked to a friend of mine in NWA/Delta management to get some insight. Actually, there are too many 70+ seat RJ's in the delta system under the current scope contract. They can either park them in the desert or they can bring them to mainline. It sounds like delta would like to bring the compass jets to mainline to avoid a scope battle with the mainline pilots. At that point he expects that delta will exercise the 900 options to replace more 200's.
02-03-2009, 12:47 PM
#253
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Depends on the aircraft and mission. At DAL all 757/767 pilots are PIC typed even on domestic birds to avoid going through a PIC type when you go international. I don't know how Compass's FOTM is approved, but perhaps they are allowed to PIC Type everyone and thereby when a pilot upgrades to Captain he only needs to perform Captain OE. If so, that is a tremendous expense saved as compared to going through another full type rating course. It depends on the POI as to what they can do however.
02-03-2009, 12:50 PM
#254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
there are only a couple more 900s that can be legally ordered under the current scope language. fwiw As far as getting the compass jets and pilots onto the mainline list i am all for it. Putting them on at the bottom now would be a win win for everyone. Instead of them having to wait the 30 months to flow they could get on now and start their longevity while also not missing out on lost seniority numbers over the course of those 30 months. WE NEED TO RECAPTURE THE FLYING, doing so would be a huge win for pilots nationwide. Selling our jobs, upgrades, and careers must stop.
02-03-2009, 12:55 PM
#255
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Call our MEC ask em about their take on it. I would LOVE to talk to you after that call.
02-03-2009, 12:55 PM
#256
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
No offense Eric, but I feel like I'm having a disagreement with my wife where she "hears" what I'm saying but doesn't "understand" what I'm saying. What hoops do you propose I didn't go through? I was civilian so yes, I didn't go through a military hoop. Neither did all military guys go through civilian hoops. My civilian hoop is different from yours.
One of my concerns is protecting "my brand". I grew up as a young kid wanting only to fly with Delta. I was enamored by the pilots and devastated in the early '90s when my marine recruiter told me that they were only going to be looking at helo pilots for the time being. Since DAL was 96% military back then I thought my dream may have remained that. But I persevered and never lost hope. I took the civilian route and regret nothing.
However, the regional hiring standards are quite different from the DAL standard. There were numerous pilots I knew at both regionals I worked for who had multiple training failures, certificate actions, no college degree, etc. They would not and could not ever pass an interview here. As such, the filters that allowed DAL to hire the best DAL candidate wouldn't be met.
Compass pilots passed the NWA interview. They were hired on an assumption that they would become NWA pilots. Comair, ASA, Skywest pilots are all hired to become their respective airline's pilots with no input from the mainline brand. In time, they can look forward to moving to the top of their seniority lists. However, if they want to fly DAL jets they can interview here.
My desire to protect our flying and increase it through bringing back the 76 seat flying doesn't mean that everyone of those pilots should be on our list with no preconditions. Compass is an exception because they've already done the interview and were hired for a future NWA job. As far as I'm concerned, the 70 seaters, et al, at the contracted regionals are just that......contracted. We should be able to take back that flying and do it here.
However, to win a war you must win the battles. The battle that is most pressing is getting Compass on our property.
One of my concerns is protecting "my brand". I grew up as a young kid wanting only to fly with Delta. I was enamored by the pilots and devastated in the early '90s when my marine recruiter told me that they were only going to be looking at helo pilots for the time being. Since DAL was 96% military back then I thought my dream may have remained that. But I persevered and never lost hope. I took the civilian route and regret nothing.
However, the regional hiring standards are quite different from the DAL standard. There were numerous pilots I knew at both regionals I worked for who had multiple training failures, certificate actions, no college degree, etc. They would not and could not ever pass an interview here. As such, the filters that allowed DAL to hire the best DAL candidate wouldn't be met.
Compass pilots passed the NWA interview. They were hired on an assumption that they would become NWA pilots. Comair, ASA, Skywest pilots are all hired to become their respective airline's pilots with no input from the mainline brand. In time, they can look forward to moving to the top of their seniority lists. However, if they want to fly DAL jets they can interview here.
My desire to protect our flying and increase it through bringing back the 76 seat flying doesn't mean that everyone of those pilots should be on our list with no preconditions. Compass is an exception because they've already done the interview and were hired for a future NWA job. As far as I'm concerned, the 70 seaters, et al, at the contracted regionals are just that......contracted. We should be able to take back that flying and do it here.
However, to win a war you must win the battles. The battle that is most pressing is getting Compass on our property.
You talk about people never being able to pass an interview there because they don't have a college degree or have a couple failures. How do you know they won't pass the interview. They may never get the interview but that doesn't mean they might not be able to pass it. Those are 2 completely different things. I have a friend who didn't think he would ever get an interview because of multiple failures on check rides. He got an interview and is now flying for a major. On one of those failures the non flying pilot went to bat for him saying that he shouldn't have failed. He was an examiner as well and later said he wasn't going to pass that day no matter how well he flew. I've known people who have had multiple failures during check rides at the same time that weren't self induced to the point of failure. Does that makes someone not qualified for the job or just eliminate them from the interview process.
Can you explain how a 4 year degree might make someone a better pilot. I've know pilots to get masters and that doesn't make them a better pilot.
Your concern over protecting "your brand", is a false hope at best. I hate to be blunt but those pilots at ASA, Skywest, Comair, mesaba, pinnicle, compass and even mesa are all flying "your brand". Next time you walk through the airport, go and ask a passenger who they are flying on before they board one of those airlines. I will be amazed if they rattle off anyone of those airlines.
I don't know what hoops you didn't go through but I can guess with about 99% accuracy that others have gone through more to get to where you are today.
If you feel any less pride for making it to delta because someone without a degree or has failures makes it too you might want to think about what you are feeling because it might just be ego and not your pride.
02-03-2009, 01:02 PM
#257
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I can tell you with absolute certainty that we at Delta have hired people with failures of 121 type and PC rides. We know people make mistakes. That is not what he is saying in the least.
The college degree requirement goes way back. It has a lot of roots. I know guys that would make awesome DAL pilots but do not have a degree. They know that until they persevere and get the degree DAL is not an option. What the degree requirement does is makes sure someone can start something and get it done with reasonable grades. We like to see above a 3.0 but have hired people with less.
It has to do with the rounding of an individual. Kind of like the fact that we like to see people be LCA's, volunteers at their church or local shelter etc. We want to see people excel not just in the flight deck but out. It makes a person fairly well rounded. I guess it makes most guys I fly with like me. We have a lot in common and thus it is a pleasure to fly three feet away from someone for four plus days.
Other airlines have ways of doing this too. This is just the DAL way.
The college degree requirement goes way back. It has a lot of roots. I know guys that would make awesome DAL pilots but do not have a degree. They know that until they persevere and get the degree DAL is not an option. What the degree requirement does is makes sure someone can start something and get it done with reasonable grades. We like to see above a 3.0 but have hired people with less.
It has to do with the rounding of an individual. Kind of like the fact that we like to see people be LCA's, volunteers at their church or local shelter etc. We want to see people excel not just in the flight deck but out. It makes a person fairly well rounded. I guess it makes most guys I fly with like me. We have a lot in common and thus it is a pleasure to fly three feet away from someone for four plus days.
Other airlines have ways of doing this too. This is just the DAL way.
02-03-2009, 01:03 PM
#258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
I have to say it seems to be much more ego then pride when I read what you wrote. It come across as being special because you made it to where you wanted to go and that others aren't deserving for whatever reason.
You talk about people never being able to pass an interview there because they don't have a college degree or have a couple failures. How do you know they won't pass the interview. They may never get the interview but that doesn't mean they might not be able to pass it. Those are 2 completely different things. I have a friend who didn't think he would ever get an interview because of multiple failures on check rides. He got an interview and is now flying for a major. On one of those failures the non flying pilot went to bat for him saying that he shouldn't have failed. He was an examiner as well and later said he wasn't going to pass that day no matter how well he flew. I've known people who have had multiple failures during check rides at the same time that weren't self induced to the point of failure. Does that makes someone not qualified for the job or just eliminate them from the interview process.
Can you explain how a 4 year degree might make someone a better pilot. I've know pilots to get masters and that doesn't make them a better pilot.
Your concern over protecting "your brand", is a false hope at best. I hate to be blunt but those pilots at ASA, Skywest, Comair, mesaba, pinnicle, compass and even mesa are all flying "your brand". Next time you walk through the airport, go and ask a passenger who they are flying on before they board one of those airlines. I will be amazed if they rattle off anyone of those airlines.
I don't know what hoops you didn't go through but I can guess with about 99% accuracy that others have gone through more to get to where you are today.
If you feel any less pride for making it to delta because someone without a degree or has failures makes it too you might want to think about what you are feeling because it might just be ego and not your pride.
You talk about people never being able to pass an interview there because they don't have a college degree or have a couple failures. How do you know they won't pass the interview. They may never get the interview but that doesn't mean they might not be able to pass it. Those are 2 completely different things. I have a friend who didn't think he would ever get an interview because of multiple failures on check rides. He got an interview and is now flying for a major. On one of those failures the non flying pilot went to bat for him saying that he shouldn't have failed. He was an examiner as well and later said he wasn't going to pass that day no matter how well he flew. I've known people who have had multiple failures during check rides at the same time that weren't self induced to the point of failure. Does that makes someone not qualified for the job or just eliminate them from the interview process.
Can you explain how a 4 year degree might make someone a better pilot. I've know pilots to get masters and that doesn't make them a better pilot.
Your concern over protecting "your brand", is a false hope at best. I hate to be blunt but those pilots at ASA, Skywest, Comair, mesaba, pinnicle, compass and even mesa are all flying "your brand". Next time you walk through the airport, go and ask a passenger who they are flying on before they board one of those airlines. I will be amazed if they rattle off anyone of those airlines.
I don't know what hoops you didn't go through but I can guess with about 99% accuracy that others have gone through more to get to where you are today.
If you feel any less pride for making it to delta because someone without a degree or has failures makes it too you might want to think about what you are feeling because it might just be ego and not your pride.
Period Eric.
02-03-2009, 01:08 PM
#259
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
I can tell you with absolute certainty that we at Delta have hired people with failures of 121 type and PC rides. We know people make mistakes. That is not what he is saying in the least.
The college degree requirement goes way back. It has a lot of roots. I know guys that would make awesome DAL pilots but do not have a degree. They know that until they persevere and get the degree DAL is not an option. What the degree requirement does is makes sure someone can start something and get it done with reasonable grades. We like to see above a 3.0 but have hired people with less.
It has to do with the rounding of an individual. Kind of like the fact that we like to see people be LCA's, volunteers at their church or local shelter etc. We want to see people excel not just in the flight deck but out. It makes a person fairly well rounded. I guess it makes most guys I fly with like me. We have a lot in common and thus it is a pleasure to fly three feet away from someone for four plus days.
Other airlines have ways of doing this too. This is just the DAL way.
The college degree requirement goes way back. It has a lot of roots. I know guys that would make awesome DAL pilots but do not have a degree. They know that until they persevere and get the degree DAL is not an option. What the degree requirement does is makes sure someone can start something and get it done with reasonable grades. We like to see above a 3.0 but have hired people with less.
It has to do with the rounding of an individual. Kind of like the fact that we like to see people be LCA's, volunteers at their church or local shelter etc. We want to see people excel not just in the flight deck but out. It makes a person fairly well rounded. I guess it makes most guys I fly with like me. We have a lot in common and thus it is a pleasure to fly three feet away from someone for four plus days.
Other airlines have ways of doing this too. This is just the DAL way.
the other stuff I just have to say WOW!!!
02-03-2009, 01:10 PM
#260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
I can tell you with absolute certainty that we at Delta have hired people with failures of 121 type and PC rides. We know people make mistakes. That is not what he is saying in the least.
The college degree requirement goes way back. It has a lot of roots. I know guys that would make awesome DAL pilots but do not have a degree. They know that until they persevere and get the degree DAL is not an option. What the degree requirement does is makes sure someone can start something and get it done with reasonable grades. We like to see above a 3.0 but have hired people with less.
It has to do with the rounding of an individual. Kind of like the fact that we like to see people be LCA's, volunteers at their church or local shelter etc. We want to see people excel not just in the flight deck but out. It makes a person fairly well rounded. I guess it makes most guys I fly with like me. We have a lot in common and thus it is a pleasure to fly three feet away from someone for four plus days.
Other airlines have ways of doing this too. This is just the DAL way.
The college degree requirement goes way back. It has a lot of roots. I know guys that would make awesome DAL pilots but do not have a degree. They know that until they persevere and get the degree DAL is not an option. What the degree requirement does is makes sure someone can start something and get it done with reasonable grades. We like to see above a 3.0 but have hired people with less.
It has to do with the rounding of an individual. Kind of like the fact that we like to see people be LCA's, volunteers at their church or local shelter etc. We want to see people excel not just in the flight deck but out. It makes a person fairly well rounded. I guess it makes most guys I fly with like me. We have a lot in common and thus it is a pleasure to fly three feet away from someone for four plus days.
Other airlines have ways of doing this too. This is just the DAL way.
A crop duster with a GED could be an unbelievable stick and rudder pilot but he may not be a good DAL pilot. They hire based on criteria that exceeds stick and rudder skills. They are very effective as well. I have found over the years that all of the majors do that. I have a lot of UAL friends but I don't think I would have fit in well at UAL. Conversely, I had a few friends not make it here but found a home and are very happy at other majors. I found a home at DAL. The process works.
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