Delta Payscale For Crj900?
02-03-2009, 09:01 AM
#211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
I understand the quality of life argument in an 88 vs 767 but the pay isn't the extreme that there is between the 175 FO and all the other positions. At current rates it's not a 10k difference but more like a 30-50k difference and I don't know anyone who would stay put for that. If pay rates changed then I can see people staying put.
02-03-2009, 09:04 AM
#212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Posts: 1,349
Why would DAL want to staple Compass ?
02-03-2009, 09:13 AM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Average FO pay during the first five years. Pinnacle ($31.10), Mesaba ($31.20), Comair ($33.80), ASA ($35.40), Compass ($34.20), DAL ($76.40) Using 500 FOs at 70 hrs per month, there is a 19 million $$ difference per year between the high and low - that's just FOs.
Why would DAL want to staple Compass ?
Why would DAL want to staple Compass ?
02-03-2009, 09:21 AM
#214
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Average FO pay during the first five years. Pinnacle ($31.10), Mesaba ($31.20), Comair ($33.80), ASA ($35.40), Compass ($34.20), DAL ($76.40) Using 500 FOs at 70 hrs per month, there is a 19 million $$ difference per year between the high and low - that's just FOs.
Why would DAL want to staple Compass ?
Why would DAL want to staple Compass ?
02-03-2009, 09:22 AM
#215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
I think scope should be all flying above a certain seat. It's about protecting block hours which translate into positions. The change happened in the 70s and early 80s when the last of the majors got rid of their Convairs and Electras. I remember flying DAL 727s from Evansville, IN to O'hare as late as 1981. Now, it is done with an RJ. The 727 went on an old CAB route from ORD-EVV-BNA-ATL. Along the way they filled the jet up. Regionals in those days flew Metroliners and Beech 99s. When DAL stopped flying those routes and transitioned to the Hub and Spoke system, companies like Comair came in with Saab 340s and Brasilias to fill the void.
With the backlash on turboprops in the mid 90s, the RJ exploded. The rest is history. It was never intended to be a mainline replacement and mainline pilots did not accurately predict the future with it. Ever wonder why a CRJ200 doesn't climb well past the mid 20s? Its because it was supposed to replace props on flights under 300 miles so it was never going to be flying 2-3 hour missions where altitude counts.
Any pilot who doesn't care is incredibly myopic as their to stupid to realize what's at stake. All of us who've come of age in the airline industry in the past 15 years get it. We've either been apart of the outsourcing (I'm a former regional pilot) or we've been outsourced (I was furloughed from '01-'06). We know what's at stake.
With the backlash on turboprops in the mid 90s, the RJ exploded. The rest is history. It was never intended to be a mainline replacement and mainline pilots did not accurately predict the future with it. Ever wonder why a CRJ200 doesn't climb well past the mid 20s? Its because it was supposed to replace props on flights under 300 miles so it was never going to be flying 2-3 hour missions where altitude counts.
Any pilot who doesn't care is incredibly myopic as their to stupid to realize what's at stake. All of us who've come of age in the airline industry in the past 15 years get it. We've either been apart of the outsourcing (I'm a former regional pilot) or we've been outsourced (I was furloughed from '01-'06). We know what's at stake.
I agree the younger pilots get it (more than the older ones) but the majority still don't. There are incredibly myopic people still out there.
02-03-2009, 09:33 AM
#216
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Because a 70 or 76 seat prop cannot go from ATL to BIL. The 900's that ASA is getting will be doing that route. Those 76 seat and 70 seat jets take over what is mainline flying.
There is a possibility of a 76 seat Turboprop doing so, but less of a chance due to its speed and range capabilities.
Heck when DFW was open we had ASA 70 seat jets going DFW-OAK. It is a 4 hr flt in that jet. ****. DAL used to fly three 90's a day to DCA and 727's to JFK out of DFW. The were full. They went to RJ's and the loads died. They then ended. Even after DFW closed we had 900's doing JFK. It is now down to one flight a day from three then two now one. Why? because it is too fricken long to be in that jet. Its loads are getting bad enough that they may cut that one too. (I know that is not the question, but it is part of the problem)
There is a possibility of a 76 seat Turboprop doing so, but less of a chance due to its speed and range capabilities.
Heck when DFW was open we had ASA 70 seat jets going DFW-OAK. It is a 4 hr flt in that jet. ****. DAL used to fly three 90's a day to DCA and 727's to JFK out of DFW. The were full. They went to RJ's and the loads died. They then ended. Even after DFW closed we had 900's doing JFK. It is now down to one flight a day from three then two now one. Why? because it is too fricken long to be in that jet. Its loads are getting bad enough that they may cut that one too. (I know that is not the question, but it is part of the problem)
02-03-2009, 09:39 AM
#217
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
In essence yes, to a point. The RJ's have the ability to cover more ground and serve more airports because of this. The Turboprops can only go so far so it limits the cities that work for its type of service.
It is not that they do not care about it. It is that there are bigger fish to fry. The 76 seat jet is an imminent threat to the DC-9 and MD-88 flying. Give up all scope and those two jets would be gone in under three years.
Management has been able to use the turboprop where it wants to, but due to its limits it has been self limiting.
It is not that they do not care about it. It is that there are bigger fish to fry. The 76 seat jet is an imminent threat to the DC-9 and MD-88 flying. Give up all scope and those two jets would be gone in under three years.
Management has been able to use the turboprop where it wants to, but due to its limits it has been self limiting.
02-03-2009, 09:42 AM
#218
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Wow! Didn't talk to me. Just to be clear, we had no choice........so said the bankruptcy judge. Any wiggle room we had was how to limit Compass, not if it was going to happen.
I voted no on the bankruptcy contract over NewCo (Compass) and the duration. I had no delusions that much would change but those were my two big issues.
History is fun to discuss, but that's what it is........history.
Ferd
I voted no on the bankruptcy contract over NewCo (Compass) and the duration. I had no delusions that much would change but those were my two big issues.
History is fun to discuss, but that's what it is........history.
Ferd
I was floored by their responses when I was talking to them about it.
02-03-2009, 09:46 AM
#220
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Historically I agree. It still is that way with many of the senior guys. But get a senior guy with a son that is a new hire or at a regional, and they are very well versed on this. Then they will go and talk your ear off all the way to BOM about it.
Trust me there is a slow but noticeable change in this group.
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