Bucking Bar

ACL & DAL4EVER: Please don't play to the anti-RJDC sentiment. It is not relevant. It just harms the goal of mainline re-capturing the E175 by inflaming old wounds and they are not "chomping at the bit again" or "looking into it." What they are looking into is whether or not the imposition of NWA's scope (Mesaba flow) via the JPWA is a violation of the scope status quo that was part of their settlement with ALPA. The plaintiffs D F and K C, your former MEC Chair, will talk to you. Just call them and get it straight from the horse's mouth. I'm just telling you if the E170/E175/E190 idea is in any way linked in anyone's mind it is political poison that will kill any reasonable attempt at unity.

The RJ pilots in general were made out to be the bad guy and used for political cover while the mainline MEC sold scope and the mainline pilots ratified the deals. No RJ pilot ever voted on Delta scope, not once, never.

The issues are not related, BUT, if CPZ gets stapled it shows how the bridge works and others may want to walk across. Right now there is considerable jealousy in the Comair / Mesaba ranks, like there was in ASA / Skywest when jets were getting moved around and throw on the fire furloughs and flow through order.

There is a line at the E175's weight already written into section 1. CPZ could be stapled without opening the PWA. Compass and the E175 are unique in the contract. E190 rates are in the contract. The concerns about DCI whipsaw can be minimized. The REAL DCI whipsaw problem is the lack of any viable 100 to 150 seat jet program at Delta past 2012.

Lets focus like a laser on saving our initial Captain positions. Lets not worry about Comair a decade ago, lets worry about our interests going into the future.

NuGuy

Heyas D4E,

I forsee this exact scenario. Do a trial run with CPZ and see how it works. If it's to Mama Delta's liking, the remaining 70 seaters can be allowed to drop off as the contracts expire.

If this comes to pass, I forsee Comair/Mesaba withering away like Piedmont/Allegheny did for USAir, just flying into a few nitche markets. You eliminate the problem through attrition.

"But, but, but what about career expectations"? Yea, what about them? You do NOT work for an airline, you work for a contract lift provider, a "wet lease". There is no marketing department, no reservations, no independent ticket stock (as it were). You simply are contracted to provide lift to the specifications of the customer. When the customer no longer requires your services, then hasta la vista. Anyone who didn't take that into account in their career planning is in for a rude surprise.

Man, is that how the RJDC elite is describing it these days....BWHAHAHAHA, man, I just shot coffee out of my nose.

In any event, both Comair and Mesaba have salted the earth. Comair with their furlough antics and Mesaba, who decided that they didn't like brand scope enough to pay the freight on what was coming their way. I doubt that there is much stomach in the DAL MEC to deal with these groups again, considering they've been down the same road before. There is a much easier solution at hand, now.

Nu

acl65pilot

There is a line at the E175's weight already written into section 1. CPZ could be stapled without opening the PWA.

I agree with this.
I differ in opinion on why they are looking in to it. As you say they never voted on scope, but yet are trying to protect the very flying that they have never voted for.
I am not trying to be coy, I just never liked the reasons behind the whole thing.
You know my stance, and one way or another I believe that all MEC's need to see this RJ branded flying as mainline flying. It is time to get it back.
I also see the fact that they looking at section 1 again as a way to hinder the process of working together towards that goal.

Bucking Bar

ACL:

I'm just saying to keep political poison well away from an issue that is going to be controversial. People will walk past $10 to deny their enemies from getting $1. It is human nature to be dumb that way.

I agree this is mainline flying. Delta bought it when they bought the airlines. ALPA gooned up when they let an airline acquire another airline without a merger. The water gets really muddy if the purchased airline survives, so of course they are fighting to keep some scope. Scope is the life of the airline.

The important difference with ASA and Comair, is that they developed their routes with their own code prior to being purchased. Now they mostly fly Delta routes that have replaced mainline equipment. Maybe let them scope their pre-purchase code? I dunno, it is very murky water. If you look at the legal (NLRB) precedent set by GoJets, then Comair and ASA are screwed (as are we). If not for the "brotherhood" and "duty of fair rep" angle, they got nothing. I like ALPA, but a independent affiliated bargaining agent for Delta pilots would remove this conflict of interest that exists.

Boomer

They (the RJDC guys) should live with that choice, or the entire ASA/Comair pilot group should live with that choice?

acl65pilot

Buck, as I stated. You know me and know where I stand on this issue. If all parties involved would have some accountability and the ability to look at this thing realistically, progress may be made.
Fact is that it took guts and a few other things to sue the DAL MEC. Everyone knows that this caused some deep wounds. If we are to move on everyone needs to look at the whole picture not just their portion of it.

Boomer

With that kind of thinking, Delta may be asking you to be the next Comair CEO.

acl65pilot

Like I said, every party needs to move beyond this. I am one who believes that these two pilot groups should not be penalized for the actions of a few.
Opening this can of worms again is not the way to do this.

acl65pilot

Do not give him any more ideas that he already has!

Jake Wheeler

Keep thinking positive,NuGuy. Your anti-regional pilot attitude sets the tone for your future relations with Delta feeders.

Meanwhile the two images which come to my mind. One is the scene in the "Jurassic Park" showing a fossil of the most popular dinosaur predator, Tyrannosaurus Rex, being taken down by several smaller, but equally vicious Velociraptors. All went down together.

The other is management laughing their butts off as pilot groups fight over scraps because they can't work together in unison.

Good luck with your career, NuGuy. I'm sure you've got it made.

RJ Defense Coalition

http://www.rjdefense.com/2003/10_Things_About_Scope.pdf