Worst Paying Major Airlines??????
01-01-2009, 11:17 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
This job is the easiest in the world when everything is going right. However we're paid for when it doesn't. How often do we have to start thinking outside the box to make sure we have enough fuel? Where are we going to divert? What's plan B/C/D? A doctor screws up and he doesn't die. A doctor screws up and he doesn't kill 20+ people, just 1.
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01-01-2009, 11:59 AM
#72
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 64
I am on the bus, but the 190 rates are horrible. I feel guilty looking these guys in the face is the only way I can really explain it, its just not right. I have had quite a few buddies ask if they should come to JB out of the Air Force and I have told them don't waste their time. If your a Major or Ltc coming out of the military to JB it's going to look and feel like welfare, which is pretty sad. What is more sad is that our company after years and years of knowing the pay is bad continues to talk about "we are looking into these issues." Talk, talk and more talk.
IMHO, no airline pilot should be making less than 6 figures a year after 4 years of service. Maybe my expectations are too high, but right is right and this company has told us through it's actions that we are not worth it. 190 guys making 58 dollars an hour after 4 years? Talk about nauseating.
IMHO, no airline pilot should be making less than 6 figures a year after 4 years of service. Maybe my expectations are too high, but right is right and this company has told us through it's actions that we are not worth it. 190 guys making 58 dollars an hour after 4 years? Talk about nauseating.
Looks like you came straight from the military and have not had the pleasure of working for a unionized carrier before. Take it from somebody who has been at two unionized airlines prior to JB, a union will NOT fix the problems that need to be addressed here. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I am far from thrilled with my pay and benefits, but do not see a union as the answer. JB Management is willing to address our issues on a continuing basis. That will lead to improvements a lot quicker than the CBA negotiating process. A Captain making better money than me may be willing to exude some patience in the hopes of a better deal through collective bargaining, but FOs here can not afford to.
For now, I want to give management a chance to make the 190 pay better before we resort to a union. The payscales were designed with rapid movement and progression in mind, and obviously that is no longer the case. This needs to be addressed yesterday!
Also, once we go down the union road, you can guarantee that the culture will change forever. What are you willing to give up for better pay and benefits? Talk to those who worked as union leaders at their former carriers and they will educate you on the realities that we can look forward to once a union is voted in. The other labor groups will want theirs, too, and the company will no longer be a fun place to come to work. I have been at a place like that before, and trust me, this is a better system (though still a work in progress). Look around us, we are in a recession. Take a look at the loads for the next few months and beyond. 2009 is going to be a difficult year. While I do not subscribe to the fear-mongering folks who claim we are going to be bankrupt or furloughing (just look at the reserve grid), I still believe this is the wrong time for a union. Just an opinion. I was pro-JBPA at one time but realized that my interests and those of this pilot group are better served TODAY without a union after taking the emotion and frustration out of my thought process. If Management does not act in the wake of this drive, then sign me up the next time around!
01-01-2009, 01:40 PM
#74
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
01-01-2009, 03:12 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
so, is the question who is the worst paying airline operating mainline aircraft? That would be RAH, their wonderful contract allows them to operate the EMB-190/195 at regional work rules and regional pay... a new record in lowering the bar.
If yo limit it to Boeing and Airbus you may get some more answeres in line with what you are looking for.... since the word "Major" no longer has a definition in our industry.
01-01-2009, 05:35 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B737 CA
Posts: 1,518
Anybody ever read Dick Karl's column in Flying Magazine? The guy is at or near the top of the medical profession, flies a high performance twin turboprop (Cheyenne) in his spare time, actually has a 737 type, and is still completely in awe of airline pilots and the job they do day in, day out. The guy knows the difference between a hobbyist and a professional. To a guy like Dick Karl who's been doing surgery for 40 years, it's a pretty natural thing to do. I think he recognizes that the ease with which professional pilots perform their job is a mark of many years of training and experience rather than the simplicity of the job; it is an argument for greater pay, not less.
Some guys here act like they were born with an ATP in hand and all they had to do was show up. I fought long & hard for mine.
Some guys here act like they were born with an ATP in hand and all they had to do was show up. I fought long & hard for mine.
01-01-2009, 06:11 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Seat 1 A
Posts: 196
If you don't think flying is the best profession in the world then maybe you're in the wrong profession. I sometimes hear from friends that flying has become just a job to them. The enthusiasm is gone, they're just flying for the paycheck. I can understand that feeling because of the way the pilots profession has seemed to nose dive a couple hundred feet in the past decade or so considering bankruptcies, furloughs, paycuts,mergers, mis-management, longer work schedules and add the fact that the public use airlines like they used to use a Greyhound bus ( no offense intended )one can see how a pilot may look at things with jaded glasses. While I'm not a union guy, I have grown up in a union strong city and saw what an effective union can do. I don't believe today's aviation unions are that effective. Maybe the airline guys can take a chapter out of the corporate/charter pilots book. We have never had job security and know what our payscale is when we sign a contract or agree to work for a company. Life is too short to be bitter, always have a " B " and a "C " plan and know when to implement them. It isn't easy uprooting a family but sometimes it is a necessity when considering quality of life and your job.
01-02-2009, 06:47 AM
#78
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,792
First, I never said airline pilots ARE doctors. Obviously we are not, we are pilots.
Second, getting a 757 type from higher power and getting a job flying a 757 for a major airline are two different things here. I'm just saying that I believe the schooling required to become a major airline pilot or a doctor are about equal.
Second, getting a 757 type from higher power and getting a job flying a 757 for a major airline are two different things here. I'm just saying that I believe the schooling required to become a major airline pilot or a doctor are about equal.
Also, how is flying a 757 different from flying a CRJ900? Now bear in mind, I have 0 time in a CRJ, but I have a few thousand hours in a 737NG. I don't see that many RJ's falling out of the sky.
You're way off base here.
01-02-2009, 07:17 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
First, I never said airline pilots ARE doctors. Obviously we are not, we are pilots.
If they required a heart surgeon to just study stuff that applies to that specialty and not stuff like gynogology, their schooling would probably be cut in half. Most of the stuff we study will be used for the rest of our careers.
If they required a heart surgeon to just study stuff that applies to that specialty and not stuff like gynogology, their schooling would probably be cut in half. Most of the stuff we study will be used for the rest of our careers.
That's the thing about medicine. You have to become a Doctor first before specializing in other fields. That's because, regardless of your specialty, your dealing with a human body where anything can happen. Yeah, you might be a gynecologist but you better be qualified to recognize and treat your patient if she has a heart attack in your care. Kinda like, you might be an airline pilot flying from A to B. Just because you don't teach stalls on a daily basis like a CFI, you better know how to recognize and recover from one.
Even if you could cut the required med exams in half, the amount of study would still make your ATP test prep book look like a kiddies puzzle book by comparison.
AL
01-02-2009, 08:44 AM
#80
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
It really bothers me that so many on this forum cut their job skills so short. They think our job is just "so easy a child could do it". Well, I'm here to tell you that's not the case. If this was such a piece of cake job, a lot more folks would be doing it. Just like being a doctor or lawyer, it takes dedication, patience, money, and a lot of hard work to be a pilot for ANYONE. To a doctor, their medical schools are just part of the equation, just as our stepping stones, ie., private, commercial, instrument, ATP, FE, are. They ALL require a certain amont of time and study. Why so many here think it just happens over night is beyond me. I guess some are born with a platinum spoon in their mouths and everything is just given to them. I had to work my butt off to get to where I am today. It was a long hard road, but it was well worth it. Just as the surgeon doesn't become Chief of the Hospital over night, neither do we become B777 senior pilots over night either. Quit selling yourself short guys.................
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