SWA CAT III Question
12-28-2008, 07:27 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,989
No, they hand fly the Cat 2/3 approaches because it’s cheaper. If you don’t bother to buy ATs for your aircraft and don’t want to maintain autopilot systems to allow autoland, a hand flown approach with the HUD is your only option.
Not an area to go cheap, IMO. It may be a piece of cake most of the time but it’s still hand flying which leaves room for error. As a pax, I think I’d rather have an autoland than hope the pilot has brought his A-game that day.
Sounds like it is a sweet system. It would be a nice backup to a normal autoland system in the event the aircraft was not in Cat-2 or 3 status.
It would seems like it’s best suited for smaller aircraft. If you have a 50’ DH, it’s likely that the cockpit of large widebodies would still be in the soup if it’s a 600/600/600 approach at mins.
12-28-2008, 07:40 AM
#22
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Retired FDX MD11 Capt
Posts: 887
Handflown CAT3b?
For WN and B6:
I'm curious what your mins are for a handflown CAT3b?
At FX we have RVR 600 with a 100RA Alert Height for the Airbus and RVR 300 (some airports) with a 100RA Alert Height for the MD-11.
With the HUD do you have to see to land?
I'm curious what your mins are for a handflown CAT3b?
At FX we have RVR 600 with a 100RA Alert Height for the Airbus and RVR 300 (some airports) with a 100RA Alert Height for the MD-11.
With the HUD do you have to see to land?
12-28-2008, 08:00 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
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Alert height is just a checkpoint for fail operational systems. Failure prior requires a go-around. Failure after will still allow the aircraft to safely land in the touchdown zone. There is no requirement to establish external visual reference at alert height.
12-28-2008, 09:36 AM
#24
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Retired FDX MD11 Capt
Posts: 887
Yes, they have to see to land. That's why they have a 50' DH. DH means see to land.
Alert height is just a checkpoint for fail operational systems. Failure prior requires a go-around. Failure after will still allow the aircraft to safely land in the touchdown zone. There is no requirement to establish external visual reference at alert height.
Alert height is just a checkpoint for fail operational systems. Failure prior requires a go-around. Failure after will still allow the aircraft to safely land in the touchdown zone. There is no requirement to establish external visual reference at alert height.
12-28-2008, 10:05 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
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We're not required to have visual cues because we're flying a coupled approach to an autoland. Big difference.
12-28-2008, 10:14 AM
#26
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Retired FDX MD11 Capt
Posts: 887
I guess what I'm having a hard time grasping is how they are flying CAT3b handflown? Isn't the whole idea of of 'b' as opposed to 'a' not having to see?
I better get off APC and do some reasearch.
I better get off APC and do some reasearch.
12-28-2008, 10:43 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,989
3a is DH below 100' or autoland and RVR no less than 700 feet.
Using a DH means see to land, regardless of which approach you're flying. No DH=no see to land (but I think this obviously requires autoland).
No one from SWA has gotten on here and actually specified they fly Cat-3b or said what their actual mins are. Maybe that will shed some light on the situation.
12-28-2008, 12:13 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Right forever.
Posts: 98
SWA is CATIIIa, not b. Inside each cockpit says so unless a component is MEL'd. We are down to 50DH and 700rvr. Yes we hand fly it because we are cheap and do not want to keep up the autopilot gear, whatever that is. HUD ops were introduced to SWA by Morris during that merger or buyout.
12-28-2008, 12:44 PM
#30
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Retired FDX MD11 Capt
Posts: 887
SWA is CATIIIa, not b. Inside each cockpit says so unless a component is MEL'd. We are down to 50DH and 700rvr. Yes we hand fly it because we are cheap and do not want to keep up the autopilot gear, whatever that is. HUD ops were introduced to SWA by Morris during that merger or buyout.
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