CO 737 departs end of runway in DEN
12-23-2008, 07:12 PM
#101
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: CFI
Posts: 416
I'm a CFI so laugh at my idea if you want. I read there were reports of thumping sounds as the aircraft accelerated down the runway. Is it possible there was a tire blowout that could have caused the noise and thus the problem? If so, and coupled with the high crosswind component, that could have made the aircraft exceptionally difficult to handle. I know reports say the tires didn't appear to be an issue, but who knows.
Does anyone have an idea how many other comparable sized aircraft departed close to the same time as this one? It just seems to me that a 31 kt crosswind on it's own shouldn't be enough to flumox a highly trained crew. Aren't accident usually created by several factors that go wrong in at the same time? Just thinking out loud or on the internet I should say.
Does anyone have an idea how many other comparable sized aircraft departed close to the same time as this one? It just seems to me that a 31 kt crosswind on it's own shouldn't be enough to flumox a highly trained crew. Aren't accident usually created by several factors that go wrong in at the same time? Just thinking out loud or on the internet I should say.
12-23-2008, 07:30 PM
#102
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Anything is possible, that is why there will be an investigation, that will find the probable cause.
Yes with a high cross wind the mu force is reduced, that is why unless an aircraft is impossible to control it is better to take that issue in to the air!
Yes with a high cross wind the mu force is reduced, that is why unless an aircraft is impossible to control it is better to take that issue in to the air!
12-24-2008, 08:07 AM
#103
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: A320
Posts: 1,318
I'm sure this was an account from a passenger. When you fly airliners enough you just become used to the thumping you get on just about every T/O. Sometimes it is really loud sometimes not. Most of the time when I'm taking off I have to step just a little bit to the side to stop this banging and thumping caused by the high center line lights and the nosewheel. They call them the turtles. It's a good point though.
12-24-2008, 08:22 AM
#104
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Bigfoot
Posts: 1,077
I'm sure this was an account from a passenger. When you fly airliners enough you just become used to the thumping you get on just about every T/O. Sometimes it is really loud sometimes not. Most of the time when I'm taking off I have to step just a little bit to the side to stop this banging and thumping caused by the high center line lights and the nosewheel. They call them the turtles. It's a good point though.
12-24-2008, 09:23 AM
#107
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Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: UnemploymentJet
Posts: 314
Uh, not sure about 737 engine out handling, but outboard engine failure on the down wing engine (B-52) is a practically a non-event because the weather vane effect counters the asymetric thrust. Engine failure on the upwind side can get exciting in a strong crosswind!! That's why we're limited to 10 knots of crosswind component and a dry runway to practice pulling an engine on a touch and go.
12-24-2008, 09:34 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: At the Blue Line
Posts: 244
I'm a CFI so laugh at my idea if you want. I read there were reports of thumping sounds as the aircraft accelerated down the runway. Is it possible there was a tire blowout that could have caused the noise and thus the problem? If so, and coupled with the high crosswind component, that could have made the aircraft exceptionally difficult to handle. I know reports say the tires didn't appear to be an issue, but who knows.
Does anyone have an idea how many other comparable sized aircraft departed close to the same time as this one? It just seems to me that a 31 kt crosswind on it's own shouldn't be enough to flumox a highly trained crew. Aren't accident usually created by several factors that go wrong in at the same time? Just thinking out loud or on the internet I should say.
Does anyone have an idea how many other comparable sized aircraft departed close to the same time as this one? It just seems to me that a 31 kt crosswind on it's own shouldn't be enough to flumox a highly trained crew. Aren't accident usually created by several factors that go wrong in at the same time? Just thinking out loud or on the internet I should say.
The "thumping" could also have been "compressor stalls". If it was heard on the CVR it had to be loud, and "compressor stalls" are loud and anyone who has had one will agree. The FDR will show it if that was the case.
The 737 if I remember correctly like all Boeings and large jet aircraft have a 30 knot crosswind limitation. I do not think it falls under the same category that light aircraft have under "demonstrated cross wind". Does anyone know if it was a true 90 degree x-wind component?
I am not an expert at all, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express. Just some unemployed pilot sitting on the sofa.
Happy Holidays
Last edited by NoWake200; 12-24-2008 at 03:01 PM.
12-24-2008, 09:34 AM
#109
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Thumping
Several posters here have suggested tire failure...yet the NTSB has already stated they do not see any problem with tires or brakes. There was no tire debris on the runway..or actually, debris of any kind on the runway.
My money is the 'thumping' is the normal cycling of anti-skid on a max-effort abort, expecially if the airplane is in a skid (yawing) towards the edge of the runway. It could be the nosewheel skidding, too.
In any event, we don't know. Let's wait and see. I remain glad that all got out. There but for the grace of God go you and I.
My money is the 'thumping' is the normal cycling of anti-skid on a max-effort abort, expecially if the airplane is in a skid (yawing) towards the edge of the runway. It could be the nosewheel skidding, too.
In any event, we don't know. Let's wait and see. I remain glad that all got out. There but for the grace of God go you and I.
12-24-2008, 10:16 AM
#110
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,576
I've flown all CAL 737's from the left and right seat. The classics (300's & 500's) make lots of noise on takeoff and taxi for that matter. I'm not sure if this is even an issue? I guess we will have to wait a year for the NTSB to do their job.
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